CBC hockey commentator Mike Milbury is in hot water with a gay-rights group over his coining of the term “pansificiation.” He has used it a couple times on air to describe what will happen to the NHL if the league kowtows to calls for a ban on fighting. Egale Canada is picking up the fight, saying that the term is an attack on gay people. But CBC spokesman Jeff Keay says they won’t be doing anything about it, and that the gays are 20 years behind the times . . .
“The point is, it was no way intended to be a reflection on or offensive to gay people,” Keay said. “I think the colloquial use of the term was something they didn’t associate with gay people. The way the language evolves over time, 20 or 30 years ago it would have been seen, reasonably enough, as a direct slur against gay people. But I think with usage now, I’m not sure the association is so immediate.”
Egale Canada’s Helen Kennedy disagrees:
“Words like pansification just further the stereotype and perpetuate the homophobic stereotype in our society,” she said yesterday.
The network’s defense of the term seems a bit odd to me. Canada is supposed to be a place where you don’t have to hear stuff like this. And surely there are a dozen other terms they could come up with to describe the sentiment without using a derogatory term. My guess is they’ll cave at some point; It just seems like a no-win fight for them.
Hat tip to long-time Outsports member Enigma.
on Jan 29th, 2009 at 10:35 am
On this one I’m with the CBC and Milbury. I know Helen - I even book some of her travel - and I respect a lot of the work EGALE has done - but this is a non-issue to me. I don’t consider ‘pansification’ to be a remark aimed at gays. Surely we’re past getting defensive about non-offensive remarks like that - aren’t we?
I think most people in Canada know gays come in all shapes and sizes and level of toughness. Some are tough, some are mean, some are pansies. Some straight guys are pansies too and to me that simply means they act in a very timid fashion. Nothing to do with their orientation.
That’s my reaction anyways. Maybe that is because I get treated so equally here, whether people know I’m gay or not, so I don’t at all react in a defensive manner to comments like that. I’ve heard my gay friends use the word pansies with each other and I’ve heard it used in conversations with straight friends and family. And I’m certain in any of those cases there was no intent to have the meaning of the word interpreted as derogatory towards gays.
on Jan 29th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
I agree. I think we (gay people) need to stop complaining about every imaginary slight because it just sounds like we’re crying wolf. And when something truly offensive, homophobic or hateful occurs, no one will listen to us. Further, people will be so afraid of offending us that they’ll just stop talking about us.
Side note: reducing fighting in hockey is NOT pansifying anything. Fighting has nothing to do with the sport of hockey. It’s just poor sportsmanship.
on Jan 30th, 2009 at 12:58 am
I wasn’t offended by the use of pansification but it probably wasn’t the best term to use either.
As for fighting… I like it, I don’t see a problem with it. Yes there have been some major incidents in the last few months, but I’d much rather see them make changes to icing or even concentrate on eliminating shots to the head than worrying about fighting.
on Jan 30th, 2009 at 7:28 am
Yes, Millbury should have coined an expression like “the gelding of the NHL.” That’s so much more pleasant.
on Jan 30th, 2009 at 10:51 am
I’m on the CBC’s side on this as well. Does anyone gay really identify with being a pansy?
I don’t.
on Jan 31st, 2009 at 3:11 am
Forgive me for observing that most (if not all) professional ice hockey players are men. If the players are becoming pansy players, what in God’s name could be any other interpretation than that the players are becoming sissies. What has that always meant about such disparaged men? Anything other than gay come to mind? I think not. So, dear fellow homosexuals, even if you don’t “identify” with being a “pansy” just as German World War I heroes did not “identify” with being merely “Juden” during the 1930’s, nonetheless the Nazis dragged these national heroes from their multigenerational German homes & mansions to be crowded into the same railroad boxcars as the Romany, Queers, Communists & all other forms of human “perversion” as the majority of Nazi haters defined it. Know your enemy & know your own place in the order of things & you have a better chance of survival, maybe even thriving!
on Jan 31st, 2009 at 4:00 pm
Sorry Roman Fingers - but I couldn’t disagree with you more strongly. To link the comments of a hockey analyst who feels that people are trying to make hockey too soft a game by banning fighting - and in expressing that opinion using the term ‘pansification’ - to link that to the Nazis killing gays and Jews almost 70 years ago - is just way over the top in my opinion.
And I think a perfect example of what Canmark described in his comments. When something truly homophobic and hateful occurs - the allies we need won’t listen to us - like the boy who cried wolf too often.
And on a totally different tact - as much as I disagree with Helen and EGALE portraying this as a serious issue - she is one smart cookie. As one EGALE supporter pointed out to me yesterday - he figures this is not really that big a deal to EGALE at all - but one of those battles they decided to take up simply because of the publicity it gives them. And nothing like taking on the CBC and Hockey Night In Canada in this country to generate free publicity for your organization.
on Jan 31st, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Well - to CBC’s and Hockey Night in Canada’s credit tonight’s Hockey Night in Canada 30 minute pre-game show featured Ron McLean the host interviewing Helen Kennedy of EGALE. Not to apologize - but to give her the opportunity to explain the work of EGALE - how this was brought to EGALE’s attention and to give her a chance to explain why words like pansy can hurt - not so much adults - but young effeminate boys who still get bullied in schools.
And Mclean did challenge her pointing out that there was no anti-gay motivation behind the use of the word. I thought his description of hockey being like a rose was apropos. Him and Milbury still want hockey to have the thorns. Kennedy explained she got that but found the choice of words unfortunate.
So in this case a win - win situation. HNIC and CBC do not apologize for something I don’t think they had to apologize for in the context they used the term. While at the same time giving EGALE probably the biggest form it ever has appeared on in this country - being a part of the Hockey Night In Canada show to talk about homophobia and the bullying of effeminate kids at school.
And from a selfish point of view - hopefully tons of traffic to their website where our travel agency is featured on the home page as a supporter of EGALE).
on Feb 1st, 2009 at 2:41 am
Hey there Travelpat, I completely understand your abhorrence at a direct line drawn between the eventual commencement of the systematized Nazi extermination & the ill advised comments of a mere sports announcer some 70 years later, but I think you’ll agree that the deadly consequences of prejudices are not born overnight. There were years of omnipresent tolerated official anti-Semitism (harkening back to the numerous 19th century European pogroms) that was culturally widespread in Germany. Everyone thought they could kick a Jew for an easy laugh. Still, the established gentry of German Judaism was under the illusion that their generations of military & civic accolades would spare them from any governmentally sponsored harm. Have you ever listened to the ranting of the disturbingly growing segment of the religious right wing in this country known as the Christian Dominionists? They envy the vehemence of radical Islamic Jihadists who train their children to kill for Allah. I may err on the side of being an alarmist, but better that than an eventual slave in a theocratic monarchical fascist state the likes of Franco’s Spain that endured far into the 20th century. Many groups in the Roman Catholic Church, Opus Dei for just one example, trace their hateful roots back to priests who were collaborators with dictators the likes of Franco & Hitler. This is the not too distant past, and I for one fear the unreported undercurrents of skinhead & so-called “Christian” wing nuts worldwide. Take note of the 10’s of 1,000’s of openly militaristic Russian skinheads, as well as the widespread radical “Christian ministers” throughout Africa who are having women labeled as witches killed, beaten or driven out of their villages because they refuse to convert to Christianity. Our daily “urbane” routines in the seemingly civilized streets of major American cities, wherein even there lie sleeping tigers of intolerance, can easily lull us into believing that progress is inevitable. I’m not so sure about that, especially when in my hometown of San Francisco repeated bloody gay bashings still occur with some regularity.
on Feb 1st, 2009 at 6:55 am
What Egale Canada has done is re-entered this word into the lexicon of homophobic derogatory terms. For the most part, it had dropped off the radar as a homophobic slur - something we should all have been happy about.
Now, it’s back on the radar, and those inclined to use homophobic slurs have another weapon in their arsenal.
http://michaelkrahn.com/blog/2009/02/01/pansy-re-enters-the-lexicon/
on Feb 1st, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Opinion from xtra!, Toronto’s gay newspaper:
“Kennedy’s complaint smacks of over-sensitivity. Let’s be realistic — this is how some men speak to each other. Hockey is full of trash talk that might appall any outsider. Sometimes the language of the locker room finds its way into the broadcast booth, especially when the commentator in question is a former player and coach.
Crying homophobia at every perceived slight makes gay people seem like a bunch of whiny pansies. I think we need to choose our battles more wisely.”
http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/The_pansification_of_hockey-6229.aspx
Article by the same author on gay sexuality and hockey: “Hockey’s common bonding experiences, from sex play to initiation rites”
http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/Hockeys_common_bonding_experiences_from_sex_play_to_initiation_rites-6069.aspx
on Feb 16th, 2009 at 8:23 am
“PANSY-fication”…
when a straight guy is called a “pansy”
does he think he’s being called gay?
of course.
therefore it IS derogatory against gays.
please rediscover your compassion and
humanity.
live and let live.
also,
canadian hockey is stronger than milbury thinks.
it doesn’t have to be defensive- it has
nothing to prove to anyone-period.
on Feb 17th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
jim….
waaaaay off my friend….
im hetero and when ive been called a pansy it means to be wimpy and lacking some toughness…everybody is too sensitive…grow some thicker skin……
example…..the sedin brothers are pansys in my eyes….not gay….just soft and wimpy…
on Feb 17th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
What a bunch of pantywaists.
on Jun 5th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Why must EVERYTHING be an issue with the gays? IM SICK OF IT!