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	<title>Comments on: Swimming tackles the high-tech swimsuits</title>
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		<title>By: California Dolphin</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/02/24/swimming-tackles-the-high-tech-swimsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-4976</link>
		<dc:creator>California Dolphin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 19:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=4383#comment-4976</guid>
		<description>Whether you&#039;re Gay or Str8, &quot;tech suits&quot; are the uglyist thing to come about in athletic wear ever.   :mad: 

They make the swimmer look like some kind of creature from a Sci-Fi movie. In fact, that is what I think the designers of athletic wear are really trying to do -make some kind of fashion statement.  :mad: 
 
I&#039;d rather go back to the old fashioned briefs for guys and bikinis for gals. Anyone with a swimmer&#039;s body is a lot more pleasing to the eyes than someone wearing techy garbage of a suit. :mrgreen:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether you&#8217;re Gay or Str8, &#8220;tech suits&#8221; are the uglyist thing to come about in athletic wear ever.   <img src='http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_mad.gif' alt=':mad:' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>They make the swimmer look like some kind of creature from a Sci-Fi movie. In fact, that is what I think the designers of athletic wear are really trying to do -make some kind of fashion statement.  <img src='http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_mad.gif' alt=':mad:' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>I&#8217;d rather go back to the old fashioned briefs for guys and bikinis for gals. Anyone with a swimmer&#8217;s body is a lot more pleasing to the eyes than someone wearing techy garbage of a suit. <img src='http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif' alt=':mrgreen:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: veeru</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/02/24/swimming-tackles-the-high-tech-swimsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-4930</link>
		<dc:creator>veeru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 23:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=4383#comment-4930</guid>
		<description>I actually like the semi-clothed tight-against-the-skin look from the bodysuit look, and hope there will not be a return to just speedos.  However, I agree that there should be standards and swimming should not be about technology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually like the semi-clothed tight-against-the-skin look from the bodysuit look, and hope there will not be a return to just speedos.  However, I agree that there should be standards and swimming should not be about technology.</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie Carson</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/02/24/swimming-tackles-the-high-tech-swimsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-4927</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Carson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 16:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=4383#comment-4927</guid>
		<description>Great summary, Jim!  

Not so much to ignore Mr. Doyle as to get back to the reasons the suits have become so controversial, several of the posters above have made some good guesses and a few have made me laugh (in a good way).  The issue has gotten so complicated the best way to steer people interested in the subject is to send them to SwimNews.com for Craig Lord’s diligent tracking of this topic since Day 1 (Swimming World’s online coverage has been OK but not nearly as comprehensive).

Here’s something that should help from the photo above of Phelps.  There are two gray opaque panels on his chest area (one of which has the Speedo logo).  Those panels are surrounded by darker material that becomes transparent as he’s stretching, showing visible threads.  The opaque panels are stretching too, but just as you can’t see the threads beneath neither can water penetrate them.  Such panels have been applied in varying patterns by manufacturers; some manufacturers have not said what those panels are made of but others have been clear that neoprene is involved.  Neoprene floats and, further, can trap air against the body – blueseventy (sic), a wetsuit manufacturer, has become a dominant player to the point that I think Speedo has had second thoughts about the whole movement.

The hot word that FINA and its scientific and legal consultants are using to address the matter is “permeability.”  FINA unwisely approved some models of these suits in mid-late 2007 without scientific testing.  That was simply the latest skid on FINA’s slippery slope that began in the 1990s with swimsuits that were supposedly faster because of the material’s weave, then proceeded with the first wave of body coverage in material covered in Teflon patterns (some mimicking “sharkskin”) and then to increasing applications of unnamed substances to the point of the neoprene coatings.  In other words, suits have become less permeable over time.

Further, the tightness of the suits has been suspected of having a compression effect.  This is no surprise to any of us in Masters swimming, where older, plumper bodies have, in the last dozen years, embraced the bodysuits and their “support.”  Well, what was previously just anecdotal is now getting some real scientific scrutiny.  

Whatever comes out of FINA later this month will guide the swimming community for 2009, and FINA has announced that guidelines may change further beginning with January 2010.  Some people are upset that it may mean asterisks on all the marks set during the period of these suits, but a consensus seems to be growing that asterisks are far preferable to years of ongoing debates focused on what someone is wearing rather than someone’s performance. 

Reduced skin coverage is likely to be the happy accident of the solution.  Hear, hear!

- Charlie Carson, former IGLA delegate to the Federation of Gay Games and Assistant Competition Manager for Swimming, Atlanta Olympic Games</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great summary, Jim!  </p>
<p>Not so much to ignore Mr. Doyle as to get back to the reasons the suits have become so controversial, several of the posters above have made some good guesses and a few have made me laugh (in a good way).  The issue has gotten so complicated the best way to steer people interested in the subject is to send them to SwimNews.com for Craig Lord’s diligent tracking of this topic since Day 1 (Swimming World’s online coverage has been OK but not nearly as comprehensive).</p>
<p>Here’s something that should help from the photo above of Phelps.  There are two gray opaque panels on his chest area (one of which has the Speedo logo).  Those panels are surrounded by darker material that becomes transparent as he’s stretching, showing visible threads.  The opaque panels are stretching too, but just as you can’t see the threads beneath neither can water penetrate them.  Such panels have been applied in varying patterns by manufacturers; some manufacturers have not said what those panels are made of but others have been clear that neoprene is involved.  Neoprene floats and, further, can trap air against the body – blueseventy (sic), a wetsuit manufacturer, has become a dominant player to the point that I think Speedo has had second thoughts about the whole movement.</p>
<p>The hot word that FINA and its scientific and legal consultants are using to address the matter is “permeability.”  FINA unwisely approved some models of these suits in mid-late 2007 without scientific testing.  That was simply the latest skid on FINA’s slippery slope that began in the 1990s with swimsuits that were supposedly faster because of the material’s weave, then proceeded with the first wave of body coverage in material covered in Teflon patterns (some mimicking “sharkskin”) and then to increasing applications of unnamed substances to the point of the neoprene coatings.  In other words, suits have become less permeable over time.</p>
<p>Further, the tightness of the suits has been suspected of having a compression effect.  This is no surprise to any of us in Masters swimming, where older, plumper bodies have, in the last dozen years, embraced the bodysuits and their “support.”  Well, what was previously just anecdotal is now getting some real scientific scrutiny.  </p>
<p>Whatever comes out of FINA later this month will guide the swimming community for 2009, and FINA has announced that guidelines may change further beginning with January 2010.  Some people are upset that it may mean asterisks on all the marks set during the period of these suits, but a consensus seems to be growing that asterisks are far preferable to years of ongoing debates focused on what someone is wearing rather than someone’s performance. </p>
<p>Reduced skin coverage is likely to be the happy accident of the solution.  Hear, hear!</p>
<p>- Charlie Carson, former IGLA delegate to the Federation of Gay Games and Assistant Competition Manager for Swimming, Atlanta Olympic Games</p>
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		<title>By: tony</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/02/24/swimming-tackles-the-high-tech-swimsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-4888</link>
		<dc:creator>tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=4383#comment-4888</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Swim Fan! Master Doyle make this Michigan fan humble enough to cross Big Ten lines and appreciate him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Swim Fan! Master Doyle make this Michigan fan humble enough to cross Big Ten lines and appreciate him.</p>
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		<title>By: DJ - Jim's Friend</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/02/24/swimming-tackles-the-high-tech-swimsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-4882</link>
		<dc:creator>DJ - Jim's Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 07:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=4383#comment-4882</guid>
		<description>I wonder how submissive he is.  :roll:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how submissive he is.  <img src='http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif' alt=':roll:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Kev</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/02/24/swimming-tackles-the-high-tech-swimsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-4875</link>
		<dc:creator>Kev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=4383#comment-4875</guid>
		<description>Mr. Doyle is put together just fine/takes care of himself well and was a hell of a college swimmer if you check his bio. out.  
http://wetspeedos.blogspot.com/2007/11/joe-doyle-god.html?zx=dd20df03ec107786
http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=89213&amp;SPID=10398&amp;DB_OEM_ID=17300&amp;ATCLID=1060185
Good Irish name too.  He was also born almost the same day I had my masters thesis defense at Syracuse :(  
Now I just feel like an old letcher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Doyle is put together just fine/takes care of himself well and was a hell of a college swimmer if you check his bio. out.<br />
<a href="http://wetspeedos.blogspot.com/2007/11/joe-doyle-god.html?zx=dd20df03ec107786" rel="nofollow">http://wetspeedos.blogspot.com/2007/11/joe-doyle-god.html?zx=dd20df03ec107786</a><br />
<a href="http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=89213&#038;SPID=10398&#038;DB_OEM_ID=17300&#038;ATCLID=1060185" rel="nofollow">http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=89213&#038;SPID=10398&#038;DB_OEM_ID=17300&#038;ATCLID=1060185</a><br />
Good Irish name too.  He was also born almost the same day I had my masters thesis defense at Syracuse <img src='http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Now I just feel like an old letcher.</p>
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		<title>By: klau</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/02/24/swimming-tackles-the-high-tech-swimsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-4873</link>
		<dc:creator>klau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=4383#comment-4873</guid>
		<description>swimming is a very technical sport, so it shouldn&#039;t be surprising that new technology, has improved times. what is surprising is that body suits has been available for years. controversy has only recently surfaced, probably because of the publicity surrounding Beijing and Michael Phelps&#039; accomplishments at the Olympics.

as a swimmer and an olympic swimming fan, i support an even playing field of availability of suits to elite swimmers (Phelps had multiple custom-made Speedo LZR suits @ +$500 from his sponsor) and the option for them to wear them or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>swimming is a very technical sport, so it shouldn&#8217;t be surprising that new technology, has improved times. what is surprising is that body suits has been available for years. controversy has only recently surfaced, probably because of the publicity surrounding Beijing and Michael Phelps&#8217; accomplishments at the Olympics.</p>
<p>as a swimmer and an olympic swimming fan, i support an even playing field of availability of suits to elite swimmers (Phelps had multiple custom-made Speedo LZR suits @ +$500 from his sponsor) and the option for them to wear them or not.</p>
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		<title>By: SwimFan</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/02/24/swimming-tackles-the-high-tech-swimsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-4872</link>
		<dc:creator>SwimFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=4383#comment-4872</guid>
		<description>To give credit where credit is due, the swimmer pictured is Joe Doyle who swam for The Ohio State University.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To give credit where credit is due, the swimmer pictured is Joe Doyle who swam for The Ohio State University.</p>
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		<title>By: SwimFan</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/02/24/swimming-tackles-the-high-tech-swimsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-4870</link>
		<dc:creator>SwimFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=4383#comment-4870</guid>
		<description>I too prefer the traditional brief cut, but swimming will never go back because the high tech suits are considered &quot;technological advances&quot;. They help swimmers go faster and that is perceived as helping the sport.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too prefer the traditional brief cut, but swimming will never go back because the high tech suits are considered &#8220;technological advances&#8221;. They help swimmers go faster and that is perceived as helping the sport.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/02/24/swimming-tackles-the-high-tech-swimsuits/comment-page-1/#comment-4869</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=4383#comment-4869</guid>
		<description>Andrew Ewen,

Actually, full body suits do not remove the need to shave. One of my teammates wore a full body suit, but didn&#039;t shave his legs and so his leg hair was sticking out of the suit. I&#039;m not sure how the LZR suits work in that regard, but the traditional body suits certainly do not remove the need to shave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew Ewen,</p>
<p>Actually, full body suits do not remove the need to shave. One of my teammates wore a full body suit, but didn&#8217;t shave his legs and so his leg hair was sticking out of the suit. I&#8217;m not sure how the LZR suits work in that regard, but the traditional body suits certainly do not remove the need to shave.</p>
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