<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Lucas Glover wins rain-drenched U.S. Open</title>
	<atom:link href="http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/06/22/lucas-wins-rain-drenched-us-open/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/06/22/lucas-wins-rain-drenched-us-open/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=lucas-wins-rain-drenched-us-open</link>
	<description>Jock Talk Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:22:33 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cesar</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/06/22/lucas-wins-rain-drenched-us-open/comment-page-1/#comment-15010</link>
		<dc:creator>Cesar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=6938#comment-15010</guid>
		<description>In truth, mud on the ground (and the ball) was a much bigger issue than rain or wind.  Rain and wind are a normal part of golf.  If fairness was the goal, I would have preferred the USGA (not the PGA - this is a USGA tournament after all and they uphold the rules of golf) institute the lift-clean-place rule.  That would certainly have made things more fair for everyone.  The wind and rain impact each hole differently based on direction, location, elevation, etc.  Each ball in play hits the ground.  Every time.

I agree with you, Boomer.  As the sentiment goes, &quot;play it as it lies.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In truth, mud on the ground (and the ball) was a much bigger issue than rain or wind.  Rain and wind are a normal part of golf.  If fairness was the goal, I would have preferred the USGA (not the PGA &#8211; this is a USGA tournament after all and they uphold the rules of golf) institute the lift-clean-place rule.  That would certainly have made things more fair for everyone.  The wind and rain impact each hole differently based on direction, location, elevation, etc.  Each ball in play hits the ground.  Every time.</p>
<p>I agree with you, Boomer.  As the sentiment goes, &#8220;play it as it lies.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: boomer</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/06/22/lucas-wins-rain-drenched-us-open/comment-page-1/#comment-14993</link>
		<dc:creator>boomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 04:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=6938#comment-14993</guid>
		<description>&quot;The weather and conditions were severely different for different golfers. If some are going to play in the rain, have them all play in the rain.&quot;

What if the tee times are rejiggered and then it fails to rain the next day?  We are back at square one, with an &quot;unfair&quot; set of tee times that helped one group of players over another, except now the grubby fingers of organizers are all over the results.  Sometimes it&#039;s best just to leave things to chance.

And frankly, the people who run golf tournaments have enough on their plates as is.  Hang out at the scoring area of even a regional junior golf tournament and you&#039;ll see the controlled chaos involved in shepherding dozens of players around a golf course in a competitive environment while enforcing a 200-page rule book on a five-mile-long track.  Bringing subjective decisions that involve inconsistent, unpredictable weather reports into the equation does not make sense.

The &quot;rub of the green&quot; is enshrined in the Rules of Golf--tough luck is a basic tenet of the game.  That&#039;s what makes it so compelling both to play and to watch.  Many if not most avid golfers would think you have a solution in search of a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The weather and conditions were severely different for different golfers. If some are going to play in the rain, have them all play in the rain.&#8221;</p>
<p>What if the tee times are rejiggered and then it fails to rain the next day?  We are back at square one, with an &#8220;unfair&#8221; set of tee times that helped one group of players over another, except now the grubby fingers of organizers are all over the results.  Sometimes it&#8217;s best just to leave things to chance.</p>
<p>And frankly, the people who run golf tournaments have enough on their plates as is.  Hang out at the scoring area of even a regional junior golf tournament and you&#8217;ll see the controlled chaos involved in shepherding dozens of players around a golf course in a competitive environment while enforcing a 200-page rule book on a five-mile-long track.  Bringing subjective decisions that involve inconsistent, unpredictable weather reports into the equation does not make sense.</p>
<p>The &#8220;rub of the green&#8221; is enshrined in the Rules of Golf&#8211;tough luck is a basic tenet of the game.  That&#8217;s what makes it so compelling both to play and to watch.  Many if not most avid golfers would think you have a solution in search of a problem.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cyd Zeigler jr.</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/06/22/lucas-wins-rain-drenched-us-open/comment-page-1/#comment-14985</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyd Zeigler jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=6938#comment-14985</guid>
		<description>KJ, the next grouping that I left off was the 7:33AM grouping. Woods, Harrington and Cabrera didn&#039;t tee off for over a half hour later. Of the next grouping I left off, 4 of 6 DIDN&#039;T make the cut (and the two who did finished +4 and +16 for the tournament). You can try to slice and dice and cut holes in the numbers all you want, but it&#039;s very clear that getting that early tee time severely hindered those players&#039; ability to win a major championship. 

Boomer, sorry, you&#039;re stuck with me. Consider yourself lucky :) You CAN be smarter about it. The problem is, I guess, that the PGA (like every other major sports league) is so rigid that they would never allow there to be thought put behind something like this, never allow tournament organizers to get creative. They COULD adjust on the fly. But they won&#039;t. By the way, I&#039;m not talking about drizzle here. The weather and conditions were severely different for different golfers. If some are going to play in the rain, have them all play in the rain. Make it a total mockery. That&#039;d be great! &quot;The leader at the end of the first round is Woody Austin, who shot a 12-over 82.&quot; Now THAT I&#039;d watch!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>KJ, the next grouping that I left off was the 7:33AM grouping. Woods, Harrington and Cabrera didn&#8217;t tee off for over a half hour later. Of the next grouping I left off, 4 of 6 DIDN&#8217;T make the cut (and the two who did finished +4 and +16 for the tournament). You can try to slice and dice and cut holes in the numbers all you want, but it&#8217;s very clear that getting that early tee time severely hindered those players&#8217; ability to win a major championship. </p>
<p>Boomer, sorry, you&#8217;re stuck with me. Consider yourself lucky <img src='http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  You CAN be smarter about it. The problem is, I guess, that the PGA (like every other major sports league) is so rigid that they would never allow there to be thought put behind something like this, never allow tournament organizers to get creative. They COULD adjust on the fly. But they won&#8217;t. By the way, I&#8217;m not talking about drizzle here. The weather and conditions were severely different for different golfers. If some are going to play in the rain, have them all play in the rain. Make it a total mockery. That&#8217;d be great! &#8220;The leader at the end of the first round is Woody Austin, who shot a 12-over 82.&#8221; Now THAT I&#8217;d watch!!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: boomer</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/06/22/lucas-wins-rain-drenched-us-open/comment-page-1/#comment-14984</link>
		<dc:creator>boomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=6938#comment-14984</guid>
		<description>That comment was a little blunt.  Just want to add, I love your work on this site---but when writing, one should stick to what he knows.

&quot;Change the rules! Be smart about when you send people out. And if some players have to play in the rain before the horn blows, figure out a tee-time system that will send the rest of the players out first the next morning so they have to play in the mud of the early morning.&quot;

This makes absolutely NO sense.  &quot;The mud of the early morning&quot;?  How do you know it will be muddy the next morning?  Are you suggesting that the groundskeepers intentionally mess up the course to equalize the conditions?  What if it doesn&#039;t rain again?  It&#039;s one thing to complain about unfairness and bad breaks, something at which professional golfers are extremely skilled.  They play the best courses in the world every weekend and find something to whine about at each one.  But you can&#039;t really believe what you&#039;re writing here.  There are no solutions to this problem because the game is played outdoors.  It&#039;s physically impossible to get 100-some golfers out on the same course and guarantee equal conditions.  If you get the short end of the stick, that&#039;s just the rub of the green.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That comment was a little blunt.  Just want to add, I love your work on this site&#8212;but when writing, one should stick to what he knows.</p>
<p>&#8220;Change the rules! Be smart about when you send people out. And if some players have to play in the rain before the horn blows, figure out a tee-time system that will send the rest of the players out first the next morning so they have to play in the mud of the early morning.&#8221;</p>
<p>This makes absolutely NO sense.  &#8220;The mud of the early morning&#8221;?  How do you know it will be muddy the next morning?  Are you suggesting that the groundskeepers intentionally mess up the course to equalize the conditions?  What if it doesn&#8217;t rain again?  It&#8217;s one thing to complain about unfairness and bad breaks, something at which professional golfers are extremely skilled.  They play the best courses in the world every weekend and find something to whine about at each one.  But you can&#8217;t really believe what you&#8217;re writing here.  There are no solutions to this problem because the game is played outdoors.  It&#8217;s physically impossible to get 100-some golfers out on the same course and guarantee equal conditions.  If you get the short end of the stick, that&#8217;s just the rub of the green.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: boomer</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/06/22/lucas-wins-rain-drenched-us-open/comment-page-1/#comment-14983</link>
		<dc:creator>boomer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=6938#comment-14983</guid>
		<description>More uninformed golf commentary from Cyd.  Just stop.  Please.  Find another blogger to write about golf because you can&#039;t do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More uninformed golf commentary from Cyd.  Just stop.  Please.  Find another blogger to write about golf because you can&#8217;t do it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kjmarker</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/06/22/lucas-wins-rain-drenched-us-open/comment-page-1/#comment-14980</link>
		<dc:creator>kjmarker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=6938#comment-14980</guid>
		<description>Okay, I just had to look at the pairing sheet after Cyd&#039;s stats were up in his last response.  I don&#039;t recognize (nor do probably many golf fans) any of the first 9 players off the tee as legit contenders (even for the cut)

In the next 3 groups, there were 6 players with world ranking of under 50 and half of them made the cut (or 50% cut rate). Not making the cut was Justin Leonard and while a good player he has never made the cut in a US Open (per ESPN not me)

It is also interesting that Cyd&#039;s stats were for the first 18 players as this excluded the very next pairing of P Harrington, A Cabera and Tiger.  If you include them, the stat of those who made the cut shifts up to 29% and improves with each of the next 3 pairings.

If you are going to quote stats, be sure that this gay sports fan accountant can audit them.  If I feel there is a bias, I will feel obligated to point it out sorry - lol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I just had to look at the pairing sheet after Cyd&#8217;s stats were up in his last response.  I don&#8217;t recognize (nor do probably many golf fans) any of the first 9 players off the tee as legit contenders (even for the cut)</p>
<p>In the next 3 groups, there were 6 players with world ranking of under 50 and half of them made the cut (or 50% cut rate). Not making the cut was Justin Leonard and while a good player he has never made the cut in a US Open (per ESPN not me)</p>
<p>It is also interesting that Cyd&#8217;s stats were for the first 18 players as this excluded the very next pairing of P Harrington, A Cabera and Tiger.  If you include them, the stat of those who made the cut shifts up to 29% and improves with each of the next 3 pairings.</p>
<p>If you are going to quote stats, be sure that this gay sports fan accountant can audit them.  If I feel there is a bias, I will feel obligated to point it out sorry &#8211; lol.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kjmarker</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/06/22/lucas-wins-rain-drenched-us-open/comment-page-1/#comment-14978</link>
		<dc:creator>kjmarker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=6938#comment-14978</guid>
		<description>The big deal is also TV coverage.  ESPN and NBC paid for the rights and they want play for when their broadcast is scheduled.  Like it or not, TV has a big impact because that is where the USGA gets their money.

Unless everyone plays at exactly the same time, conditions in golf will always be different.  Yes, this was an extreme case but it wasn&#039;t the first and won&#039;t be the last.

Did some guys get the short end of the draw?  Yes, but perhaps next time, they will end on the other half.  That is why there is always a bit of luck in the game and the scots call it the &quot;rub of the green&quot;.  It can be soft wind vs. hard, a bounce off the tree, or full rain vs. sunshine.  

Over a career, the greats will still shine through.  Look Tiger still finished near the top.  As much as I don&#039;t like him, it shows that he was able to over come the rain as a great player would.  The reason he didn&#039;t win was the 4 final holes in the first round played +4 when it wasn&#039;t raining anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The big deal is also TV coverage.  ESPN and NBC paid for the rights and they want play for when their broadcast is scheduled.  Like it or not, TV has a big impact because that is where the USGA gets their money.</p>
<p>Unless everyone plays at exactly the same time, conditions in golf will always be different.  Yes, this was an extreme case but it wasn&#8217;t the first and won&#8217;t be the last.</p>
<p>Did some guys get the short end of the draw?  Yes, but perhaps next time, they will end on the other half.  That is why there is always a bit of luck in the game and the scots call it the &#8220;rub of the green&#8221;.  It can be soft wind vs. hard, a bounce off the tree, or full rain vs. sunshine.  </p>
<p>Over a career, the greats will still shine through.  Look Tiger still finished near the top.  As much as I don&#8217;t like him, it shows that he was able to over come the rain as a great player would.  The reason he didn&#8217;t win was the 4 final holes in the first round played +4 when it wasn&#8217;t raining anymore.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/06/22/lucas-wins-rain-drenched-us-open/comment-page-1/#comment-14971</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 18:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=6938#comment-14971</guid>
		<description>Well Cyd I can&#039;t argue with those stats re: some of the players who didn&#039;t make the cut or ended up being too affected by the rain at the start to really have a shot at the end.  You do make a good point there buddy.  But what can you do?  I don&#039;t see them changing the tee times because of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Cyd I can&#8217;t argue with those stats re: some of the players who didn&#8217;t make the cut or ended up being too affected by the rain at the start to really have a shot at the end.  You do make a good point there buddy.  But what can you do?  I don&#8217;t see them changing the tee times because of that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cyd Zeigler jr.</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/06/22/lucas-wins-rain-drenched-us-open/comment-page-1/#comment-14970</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyd Zeigler jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=6938#comment-14970</guid>
		<description>A couple ideas:

First, be smarter about how long players have to play in the rain. They sounded the horn around 9:30 a.m. on Thursday when they knew they would have to at some point anyway - the forecast for last Thursday was terrible. Sound the horn earlier. 

Second, instead of just resuming where you left off after a rain delay, make the people who haven&#039;t gone out yet go out first so the players who haven&#039;t had to play in the rain get the worst conditions. 

Only 4 of the first 18 golfers made the cut. That&#039;s 22%. Of all the rest of the golfers, 43% made the cut. That&#039;s a statistically significant number. Why not do something about it for next time?

Again, this isn&#039;t like football or baseball, when all competitors have to play in the same weather conditions. If everyone was out on the course at the same time, I&#039;d say let them play in snow! But why not find ways to limit the advantage that the luck of the draw can give someone? They already try to do it by flipping the start times around between the first and second rounds. Why not be smarter and more creative when it comes to weather? Why not?

It&#039;s not easy, and it&#039;s not tradition, yeah I know. But to me, sports like golf and tennis should focus a little more on finding a true champion in the majors, instead of &quot;getting the match in.&quot; They&#039;re focused on the TV ratings they can get on a Sunday that they know they won&#039;t get on a Monday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple ideas:</p>
<p>First, be smarter about how long players have to play in the rain. They sounded the horn around 9:30 a.m. on Thursday when they knew they would have to at some point anyway &#8211; the forecast for last Thursday was terrible. Sound the horn earlier. </p>
<p>Second, instead of just resuming where you left off after a rain delay, make the people who haven&#8217;t gone out yet go out first so the players who haven&#8217;t had to play in the rain get the worst conditions. </p>
<p>Only 4 of the first 18 golfers made the cut. That&#8217;s 22%. Of all the rest of the golfers, 43% made the cut. That&#8217;s a statistically significant number. Why not do something about it for next time?</p>
<p>Again, this isn&#8217;t like football or baseball, when all competitors have to play in the same weather conditions. If everyone was out on the course at the same time, I&#8217;d say let them play in snow! But why not find ways to limit the advantage that the luck of the draw can give someone? They already try to do it by flipping the start times around between the first and second rounds. Why not be smarter and more creative when it comes to weather? Why not?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not easy, and it&#8217;s not tradition, yeah I know. But to me, sports like golf and tennis should focus a little more on finding a true champion in the majors, instead of &#8220;getting the match in.&#8221; They&#8217;re focused on the TV ratings they can get on a Sunday that they know they won&#8217;t get on a Monday.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2009/06/22/lucas-wins-rain-drenched-us-open/comment-page-1/#comment-14961</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 14:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/?p=6938#comment-14961</guid>
		<description>Congrats to Glover.  Tiger is my favorite but weather can&#039;t be used as an excuse for him.  His driving was off too much and he didn&#039;t sink the putts he needed to.  He had just as good a chance to win this tournament as Glover did.  Mickelson as usual choked away another US Open although I will be a bit easier on him this time given his family situation.  Barnes should be shot for that final round performance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congrats to Glover.  Tiger is my favorite but weather can&#8217;t be used as an excuse for him.  His driving was off too much and he didn&#8217;t sink the putts he needed to.  He had just as good a chance to win this tournament as Glover did.  Mickelson as usual choked away another US Open although I will be a bit easier on him this time given his family situation.  Barnes should be shot for that final round performance.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

