Comments on: Team San Francisco attacks the Outgames

By: Fred Schallig

Fred Schallig — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 19:45:59 +0000

I was reading about your topic, ” Team San Francisco attacks the Outgames – Outsports” at one of the other weblogs I keep in my website reader. You happen to be basically in agreement with them. It is not what I thought, nonetheless I’m realizing now that I am almost certainly completely wrong… amazing..

By: Gene Dermody

Gene Dermody — Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:21:47 +0000

Honesty is best for everyone.
Kumbaya emotional whirled peas means nothing…
“What’s best for the World Community?” is idealistic Hubris.
How about a rationale business model backed by facts in advising someone on how to make a decision to spend thousands of their dollars?
You have the option to have your -organizations- say and do whatever they want on this issue, and I would WELCOME hearing the rationale. But this libertarian silent kumbaya is not working.

By: ger

ger — Sun, 06 Jun 2010 14:44:52 +0000

I get the feeling that TeamSF wants what’s best for TeamSF, not what’s best for the world community.

By: Gene Dermody

Gene Dermody — Sat, 05 Jun 2010 00:30:51 +0000

Dear Papa Smurf..
Nothing in the TEAMSF pronouncement is at odds with your libertarian choices. They coexist just nicely.

But it does say a lot when you say:

“….I do it for ME.”

TEAMSF is trying to say something to help OTHER people make some expensive decisions.

By: Roger Brigham

Roger Brigham — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 21:00:45 +0000

Cyd,

The Team SF is not an attack, it is a delineation of a position.

I have never felt animus to organizers and supporters of WOGs, I have never denied their right to do as they wish. I do think they are well intentioned but the numbers indicate their actions are unintentionally harmful. If you do wish the bellicose analogy, than I would have to say many sports and sports organizations have been under heavy ‘friendly fire’ for several years now and we want it to stop.

We have had one quadrennial event since 1982; we want a return to that, and the simplest way to do that it to stick with the brand that has been there for decades and has the stronger registration numbers.

It was important for Team SF to speak up because up until now, the conversation regarding quadrennial events has been almost entirely been discussed in terms of FGG and GLISA. Reality is it is the athletes and artists and their organizations we should be more concerned about. If we said nothing, we would be enabling this dysfunctionality. Yes, we knew some people would be upset, but we do not believe it is our stance that is the source of stress: the source is an overburdened quadrennial calendar. End the WOGs and help the continental games grow.

By: Papa Smurf

Papa Smurf — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 19:53:44 +0000

Sorry SF, but you make just a tiny blip. You think you run the whole gay world but you don’t. TO say “TEAMSF is not discouraging ANYONE or ANY TEAM from going to WOGs” and then put out that type of press release…dude THAT DOES NOT COMPUTE.

I’ll go wherever the fuck I want to go and Team SF will have no say in it. Support me, don’t support me. I don’t care. I don’t do it for Team SF….I do it for ME.

By: Gene Dermody

Gene Dermody — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 19:37:31 +0000

Pat..
There are so many ways to honestly approach this 1QE issue with stakeholder input without angst. But I am going to be stickler for honesty and pedigree from these kumbaya types who only truck in pretty words like ‘can we all just get along?’.
This is serious business when you talk about a brand (GayGames) that has been around almost 30 years. The GayGames stakeholders, the ~19k registrants from previous GayGames, many of whom hold medals, records, and memories should have some input before erasing this event from history. This idea that we (GayGames) should just give up a brand to make the PC types happy is not going to fly.
This difference may be a generational and cultural difference between us. But I am more than willing to listen, debate, and compromise when I see more than kumbaya words in the discussions. But I will not be a party to a sellout by weak leadership, and I will not be bullied into not putting out facts about the competing events that stakeholders and future regsitrants need to know when they spend thousands of dollars.
We are not here to just blindly book hotels and airfaires without some level of comfort and reliable facts (and I am not attacking you personally because of your business). But this blind kumbaya promotion of events without giving out the past facts is being dishonest to our community. TEAMSF is just taking itself out of the business of vetting the WOGS based upon past history. This is not a boycott, or a condemnation, or an attack. It is just good business to serve your constituents honestly. But it seems I upset the hotel lobby of WOGS.

By: pat

pat — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 18:05:32 +0000

Hey Gene:
I don’t have a problem with it staying the Gay Games – but I look at everything else that was originally called Gay and suspect the same will likely eventually happen to the Gay Games. I do think though that the FGG should be predominently in charge of the 2018 event and the Outgames folks should concentrate on partnering to make that work and by being the people to further develop and deliver the regional events.

Now if there is a name change to Outgames does that mean the FGG becomes FOG? lol – appropriate for an event started in San Francisco don’t you think.

And count me among those who was surprised when the Antwerp Outgames were announced. If it does stay as an international games – perhaps they should not even offer some of the sports that they are not likely to get enough numbers in to run a good tournament in that sport as per some of the examples you noted above.

Other than us agreeing to disagree on the likelihood of a brand name change – I don’t think our overall positions are really that different.

By: Gene Dermody

Gene Dermody — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 03:34:25 +0000

Hey Joe.. that is funny… and I see your point… but there is REAL data here… this is not blowing smoke.

I have Wrestlers from all different clubs asking me if they should save their $$ and go to Antwerp in 2013 or Cleveland 2014. As an organizer and leader with experience and expertise, should I just say nothing to make the PC types happy? The LGBT calendar is screwed by this Antwerp WOGS in 2013.

Wrestlers look for at costs and the opportunity of a lot of diverse competition as the hook.
i.e…
Sydney GG 2002 90 wrestlers 110 matches
Montreal WOG 2006 26 wrestlers 9 matches
Chicago GG 2006 100 wrestlers 100 matches
Antwerp 2007 EuroGames ~28 wrestlers
Copenhagen 2009 6 wrestlers total..
SanFrancisco Memorial Day 2010 30 wrestlers 43 matches

What would you tell the wrestlers… save $2.5k to go to Antwerp 2013 and take their chances that they will have any competition? I guess I can tell them if they don’t wrestle, they can go shopping for diamonds.
I KNOW Cleveland will get > 160 wrestlers, will be more like ~$800, and more like Chicago/Sydney.

I can give the SAME analysis for Martial Arts and Figure Skating.

As responsible leader I have to honestly advise my constituencies based upon data, not somebody elses’ kumbaya. If WOGs were more honest and timely with their registration#s so athletes could make informed decisions about flights and registrations, I would be more open to being less biased and decisive. But Montreal and Copenhagen were only interested in filling hotel rooms, and the smaller sports be damned.

Wrestlers WithOut Borders already has published that it will not support Antwerp 2013 2 years ago, not just because of Copenhagen. Cleveland’s FGG contract actually forbids the FGG from supporting Antwerp 2013.

This is business, not kumbaya politics. Make Antwerp 2013 a low cost EuroGames or Continental Games, and the problem is solved.

By: Joe Guckin

Joe Guckin — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 02:31:05 +0000

“TEAMSF is not discouraging ANYONE or ANY TEAM from going to WOGs.”

I dunno, a statement like “we believe staging another World Outgames is simply not in the best interests of LGBT athletes” is sort of discouraging. Unless the statement is “Outgames is a garbage event, but go anyway.”