There is a new champion in international gay rugby, the Gotham Knights. The New York City squad beat two-time defending champion Sydney Convicts, 18-15, to win the fifth Bingham Cup, held in Minneapolis. The Convicts had won the event in 2006 and 2008, after San Francisco Fog won the first two cups.
Minneapolis-based photographer Grant Bowers shot the event and we will have a full photo recap. (Update: The photo gallery is up). But here are some pics of the Knights, including a team photo:
Click any image for larger view.
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 2:42 AM
I wish I’d stayed for the final games but the day had gotten long for me. I shared some pics from earlier in the day but am not sure anyone saw the link since I posted it as part of a comment to the earlier reference to the event.
I’m not a professional but check them out anyway: http://www.flickr.com/photos/27331933@N08/sets/72157624319236662/
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 9:12 AM
Best rugby that money can buy
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 11:52 AM
I had a great time Sunday watching the games. I learned alot from it and enjoyed meeting the players from all over.
And it helped I had a hot girl w/ me too.
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 1:21 PM
@carl “Best rugby that money can buy.”
Not sure what this is supposed to mean.
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 1:34 PM
Are all the rumours true this team had semi pros on it?
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 2:47 PM
Everyone has different Rugby experience, just because Gotham won, does not mean anything on the players behalf.. Stop with the bullshit talk, Gotham won the cup fairly.. The same can be same with the Convicts, who are basically born with rugby balls since birth. Hard work and determination led to this Victory.
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 3:25 PM
@Gotham Fan
Only a Gotham fan would live in such delusion. It’s called cheating. A team that routinely gets beat by 40, 50, 60 or more points in its local union all of a sudden becomes good enough to beat Sydney? You keep on thinking it’s hard work and determination. It’s really cash money to ringers. Gotham sullies the memory of Mark Bingham and is a disgrace to all of rugby.
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 3:50 PM
Hey Rugby Fans – All this month, the Flight 93 National Memorial Campaign is having a friend-raiser on Facebook. For each new person who becomes a friend, Range Resources Corporation will make a one dollar donation to the Memorial Campaign, which will honor the men and women of Flight 93, including Mark Bingham. Check it out – http://www.facebook.com/honorflight93
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 3:50 PM
Agreed Liam!
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 4:21 PM
Okay so playing devils advocate here as I’ve been to every Bingham CUp since 2004 and there have been accusations of cheating and ringers on squads at EVERY SINGLE TOURNAMENT (2004 it was Sydney, 2006 SF flew a player in for the finals only to be denied by tournament staff, 2008 was a litany of teams, 2010 Gotham)….also after every tournament there seems to be hints, whispers, and other such nasty comments said about the winners.
So being devil’s advocate let me ask this: If there were suspicions that Gotham did not have a truly Gotham team did anyone file a grievance with the tournament committee who would investigate such things and disqualify a team if necessary? If so, what was the outcome? From the tournament rules, the player only has to be CIPPed (aka registered) with the team with USA Rugby and show demonstrable affiliation with the club. If those two criteria are met, then there is no claim. If they can prove that there were semi-pro players who had never been with Gotham before the tournament then there is a case.
So what could the victory be attributed to? Well they have a new coach with significant rugby experience. Perhaps they recruited new players to be a part of their team. In 2006, I know they got 2 players from Australia to join their club and helped raise their level of play.
At the end of it all, it doesn’t really matter who won, there would always be someone there to drag their victory down. It’s happened at every Bingham I have been to and not surprised to see it now.
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 5:04 PM
I SEE MY FRIENDS WHO WHORED ON! WOOOOOOT!!!!!
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 5:07 PM
And before someone gets their panties in a bunch, they were on the B side.
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 6:45 PM
Well said, Archimedes. The same thing happens at the softball world series sadly. (Though that’s also complicated by the fact that the softball organization restricts the number of straight guys on the tea, which I don’t agree with.)
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 7:10 PM
I’m sure a little investigative research will turn up the document that shows Gotham’s payment and incentive plan for recruiting new players for the sole purposes of this tournament. X amount for an experienced Division player, X amount for a recruit who played at a top college program, etc.
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 7:10 PM
Congrats to Gotham! But it is amazing how quickly they became good. last season there were talks of kicking them out of the union because they had not scored in 5 games. they lost one game by over 100+ points.
from Gotham’s own website:
“Gotham Knights is actively seeking advanced and experienced rugby players to assist us in maximizing rugby competitiveness. We realize that individuals have different needs, so we invite you to contact us to discuss how we can help each other and how to make the transition to playing in the United States and with our club possible”.
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 8:10 PM
Then, Dean, I hope it extends to other clubs as well and not just Gotham. I am sure some other clubs offered incentives or some other such benefit to be on their club side. And, rugger, Gotham had an “international players” tab on its old website as far back as 2005 I believe. Nothing new.
Are you willing to put in the effort, Dean, or are you going to be another one to just mouth off and complain?
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 9:17 PM
@archimedes…..The tab doesn’t say “international players” it says “advanced player recruitment”.
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 10:47 PM
@rugger Yes, and as I said, they HAD a tab that said International Players that pretty much had the same information. Is there something wrong with wanting to recruit players with a higher skill set?
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 10:54 PM
What a bunch of petty queens. Build your team up as best you can and then settle it on the field. Isn’t that what sports is about????? One of the worst things about gay sport is the willingness to tear competitors down.
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 11:23 PM
I’m confused about these accusations. What rules did Gotham allegedly break? Are there recruitment rules? I’d love for someone to explain what rules they broke.
on Jun 21st, 2010 at 11:31 PM
There is nothing wrong with building a team, every team in history has. That is what competition is about, showing up with the best team and winning.
But, rumor has it that a majority of Gotham were straight men. i personally feel that if it were true it destroys the purpose of the tournament.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 12:37 AM
I know little about rugby but what I’ve gathered is that it is one of the sports that promotes a sense of brotherhood and community, especially on a local level. For example, the Minnesota Mayhem goes out of its way to be inclusive of populations traditionally underrepresented in the sport. I may have to go back and check but does the tournament say it is comprised of completely gay teams?
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 1:59 AM
All these teams are open to EVERYONE, not solely gay men… I’m sure Sydney has their fair share of straight men as well as ANY other team. Every player who played in this tournament needed to have some affiliation with the club before the tournament.. and every player that Gotham had on both their -A- and -B- sides has played with the team PRIOR to this tournament, you can go ahead and do your research boys.. there was no cheating. Do not accuse unless you have solid documentation to back your accusations.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 4:15 AM
@rugger @Liam
In Dublin’s Bingham Cup, Sydney shutout everyone except …?
The MetNYRFU fall season is September to early November. Sadly Gotham as a whole did not take the last Met season very seriously, we took the season off. What the MetNYRFU does not tell you is that most of the Rugby here is played outside of the matrix. November through May is where Gotham puts its efforts. Some Gotham members actually support the motion to demote the club to “social” status within our union.
Please take a look at pics from Dublin — you will see how many of our guys played in Dublin and Minneapolis.
From the standard of play — did you really see anyone worth getting paid? What you could see was that these guys all knew each other well.
I have seen the Rugby at all the Bingham Cups. Sydney and the Fog would not roll over the straight teams in NY’s D3. Do not kid yourselves it is a great tournament but it is still amateur Rugby.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 7:03 AM
Cyd,
The only rules for playing at Bingham for a US team is to hold CIPP (i.e., membership) paperwork with USA rugby and show “demonstrable affiliation” with the team. There are no recruitment rules and no rules limiting the number of straight players that can be on the team.
As said above, this is really just a bunch of bitter queens who have nothing better to do than to denigrate the winners to salve their own wounds. Gotham has never really been a well liked team within the gay rugby ranks and this, I am sure, has only stoked some fires.
Personally, I tell everyone who wants to put out the whispers of payoffs, players who aren’t really Gothamites, etc, to fully investigate and if found to be true then I’ll support whatever next steps are needed to strip them AND ANY OTHER TEAM THAT WON A DIVISION TROPHY of their wins. Let’s not limit this to Gotham. Their only under fire because they won the top award.
As I said this happens at EVERY Bingham Cup and it’s sad to see something so positive take such a nasty turn.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 7:25 AM
@coachjw No the teams are not completely gay with most teams having at least one straight members. There is no requirement that teams comprised of all gay members.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 7:36 AM
There are rumors about all the successful teams. I heard claims that the Fog merged with another club keeping the Fog name, and most/all of the gay players then got bumped down to the “B” side. Sydney is part of a much larger club comprised of several teams playing in all divisions(Australia has 5 or 6 IIRC), giving them a pool of available ringers.
I will say that ALL the teams I saw both here and in NY in 2006 showed marked improvement in the level of play. The B sides were playing like the A sides used to, for the most part.
And I can confirm a lot of regular Gotham players did indeed take the fall off – a lot of rookies got bumped up to the A side simply because bodies were needed, which accounts for the ridiculous scores. Two years before Gotham was second in its division in the local union and went to the regional playoffs.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 8:45 AM
Love the game and good to see it getting attention; thanks for the photos coachjw.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 10:32 AM
Gotham put 2 tries on the Convicts in Dublin, I believe one if not both was converted. The game was close until the second half. Gotham’s forwards put more punishment on the Convicts than the rest of the tournament combined. We lost it with poor kicking and backline play (2 interceptions).
The final was somewhere like 35-12. A good game.
Am sure the Convicts knew going into the match in Minneapolis it was gonna be a slugger of a match. They needed 2 ambulances the last time the clubs met!
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 10:35 AM
The Knights had 3 Australian players in the A team who have all been with the club for a number of years, one of them used to play for the convicts. The other 2 played first grade in Sydney some years ago, but never professionally, they have both played for Gotham for 4 years but did take some time off last year, basically to heal injuries. They started playing rugby when they were 5 years old so or course they are going to be skilled. There were also some English players on the team who like the Australians have played since they were very young. The new coach has made a big difference.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 10:37 AM
“Gotham’s forwards put more punishment on the Convicts than the rest of the tournament combined.”
See, insulting comments like that is why everybody hates Gotham, and have for years.
I’m sure you’ll go back to losing 100 to nothing now that the tournament is over (or when the new player contracts are over) and we’ll see it all over again in the 2012 cycle. Nothing legally wrong with it, but ethically and morally, absolutely.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 10:50 AM
What a load of tripe lou.
There are no player contracts. If you look at the team photos of the Knights from the last 3 Bingham Cups you will see most of the same faces.
Some of those guys in the final were playing with injuries, the half back had a serious shoulder injury but kept playing because there was no one to replace him, one of the others ran on with a broken foot and was replaced 10 minutes into the game by a guy with a hip injury because they didn’t have enough players. The B team had players from Denver in it because Denver didn’t have enough guys that could go. Don’t you think that if they had players on contract they would have more reserves.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 11:28 AM
Okay, since no one else decided to step up to the plate. I took the list of registered Gotham players and cross referenced their roster list (woefully out of date by the way) on their website, a few google searches, and more and guess what….with the exception of the players that I could tie to the Denver squad who whored with their B side, I could tie back everyone to Gotham as an active player.
Do it for yourselves those who were there and have a program with the player names. I did it. It worked out. And, for the record, I play for the Atlanta Bucks…
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 12:29 PM
To all those people who are making negative comments you should really look into the season we just played.
As for losing a game a while ago 100-0 yes that did happen.
Teams recruit new players all the time, thats how clubs get better. Semi-pro’s??? Really do you think semi-pro’s would be playing pn a team with no reward for them. people that think this are crazy. It is amazing in this community that people cannot be happy for each other, We wonwith a team that has played together all season & most from previous seasons. We deserved the win, we struggled hard, practiced like crazy & played as a team.
We also had a B-side that did really well getiing to the finals of their division, they haven’t won a game in a very long time, does this mean they had 1/4 pro’s .
People just be happy for us, we played hard & came off with a great victory.
you can’t bring us down with your words, we did not cheat
WE JUST WON
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 1:26 PM
As a Gotham Knight player I am upset to hear all the vicious rumours that everyone is saying. I know that all the hard work, the blood, the sweat, the injuries we as a team have faced while training for Bingham would have made Mark proud. This was won with pure heart, emotion and skill from 40 of the best lads I will ever know.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 2:52 PM
Being a recent convert to the sport of rugby (int’l football is my cup of tea, mates) and not knowledgeable enough to understand the controversies being disputed here, I will only say HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY to the NY Knights.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 2:53 PM
Um, correction. The GOTHAM Knights. (Well, I did say that I’m just learnin. Sorry, chaps.)
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 3:14 PM
These rumors circulate every year, and it’s really sad. Never are they backed up by any proof, but still they continue.
Over five Binghams, I’ve seen the level of play skyrocket. Success begets success, and that attracts more experienced players. A team like LA goes from a winless union season to finishing at the top of their division, and yeah, that brings them a higher profile in SoCal rugby and more recruits, all of whom are committing to playing on an openly tolerant, gay-friendly rugby side. It’s good for the tournament, it’s good for the home unions, it’s good for rugby. Most of all it’s good at changing perceptions of what gay athletes can do, and of dispelling the myth that gay and straight athletes live on different planets.
I gripe with my buddies about Sydney (aka the “Australian National Side:)) because of their success, but I know how hard they work and how they have grown their team. They are great guys, and Australians, with their life long play, are great ruggers. I’d love to see more then one Aussie side next time, and I know that there are guys outside of Sydney working to make it happen (go Melbourne!). I’ve watched New York get better and better every year, playing in a tough union, and the play in that final game was awesome. I’ve watched teams that were the Bad News Bears turn into sleek competitive rugby clubs from one tournament to the next (Phoenix did it this year) and I find it thrilling.
New York is a huge, cosmopolitan city full of experienced ruggers from all over the world, advantage to them. But when Madison Wisconson can field a great side, IGRAB rugby is growing and becoming more competitive. But the great thing about Bingham is that teams play at all levels, and they improve. The North Sea Pirates were pasted together with players from Copenhagen and Amsterdam, where the IGRAB teams are in their infancy, and with some willing and eager whores. Their first match against the Irish was an inglorious disaster. Their last match against another new side, Ottawa, was a neck and neck blast. Every player on that team came away committed to building rugby at home and being better next time.
When someone comes up with evidence of hard cheating, not just easily misconstrued wording from a website, then IGRAB should address it. Until then, simmer down boys. We go to Bingham because we love it. Both the Sydney-Fog and Sydney-Gotham matches were beautiful, Sydney played gutting rugby, and but for a penalty kick going astray, we might not be having this conversation.
That, brothers, is the definition of rugby, and why we all play.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 3:33 PM
Thanks, @Archimedes for addressing my question! I really didn’t know.
Thank you, @Tom Brooks for the compliment on my pictures!
I really did enjoy my first experience at a live rugby match, a mostly gay event at that… I didn’t realize there was dramatics and politics involves at this level but I was naive about it. (I still enjoying watching the matches and all of the hot men involved.)
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 4:04 PM
@lou
if you think that was an insult you do not play sport of any kind.
Watch from the side maybe but play? Evidently not. Soothe your husband’s wounds and go cook him some dinner.
If you must be so hateful — know that I agree with you on one thing … we will be back in 2012.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 4:18 PM
@spence You’re right. Every year there’s someone pointing fingers at another team for trying to get a leg up on the competition. Every year there’s someone ready to rip someone down.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 4:44 PM
Gotham Knights made me more proud than any other team I have ever played with or supported…
I have watched them scramble through the snow in blood sweat and tears…
I have read the facebook streams as each week of their union match results and see how they are imroving…
I have discussed the improved dedication to attendence at practise AND matches alike with players and coaches on different occasions…
I know these guys… I may not be ON the team (I am a girl) but I play rugby myself and I know the trials and tribulations that a team goes through. This team of men worked their ASSES off to win the cup- not paid international players to play.
As a young woman I had better ball handling(no pun intended) than some of these guys when I joined their practises in January… And now I wont even throw a ball at these guys because of the standard they have become- i’d be embarrassed by my own skil level!
Gotham Knights, you are my heroes. You fought hard, you played unmercifully and you won the Bingham Cup 2010- fair and square.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 6:12 PM
Inscribed on the trophy “We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother.” Everyone on that team would bleed for one another — that is the brotherhood that formed over the season thru rain and snow, thru blood and tears, that no spectator can take away or understand. It didn’t matter if one person was born with a rugby ball in his hand, or never played a position 2 months prior, or was gay or straight, they all came to play as a team with a goal. If that is not the moral spirit of the Bingham Cup, I would not know what else is.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 6:16 PM
Embarrassing, guys. A piece like this could conceivably bring first time players to the sport. Instead, many of you are exposing a nasty bunch of sour grapes.
If you’re inspired by Gotham’s victory and are interested in playing rugby, the sad fact is there is going to be a bit of politics and drama in every team, division and tournament you’re in. Committed athletes can rise above the fray and work toward excellence, and it’s no different in the life-affirming game of rugby.
on Jun 22nd, 2010 at 10:46 PM
It seems to me that Lou knows something about player contracts since he brought that up. Maybe he has something he wants to disclose as well. I played on Gotham and for a time served on their board. Never was the phrase or term player contract used while I served the team as a board member.
From my experience, Gotham always suffered the season before and after a Bingham tourney as the players who were most injured took the prior season off to recuperate and heal prior to a long slog to and through the Bingham tourney and then there are those that spent a great deal of time building up their skill set to peak right at Bingham and then took the following season off to avoid rugby burnout.
Frankly this all sounds like a bunch of BS by people who are upset that their team didn’t win or didn’t put in the necessary effort to succeed where Gotham did and has. I also concur with the comments of many above: after every Bingham there have been accusations, suspicions, etc. but no one has taken action at the point of inquiry prefering to devolve into petty actions that we have seen here. Rugby, as those who play know, is a hooligan’s game played by gentlemen.
I don’t see many gentlemen here.
on Jun 23rd, 2010 at 7:29 AM
Congratulations to Gotham on the win – I am sure they deserved it although…I am confused how a team that basically didn’t compete in its own league for most of the season managed to then pull themselves together to win the Bingham Cup – probably by masses of hard work and dedicated training attendance. Can we have your training schedule (we are always looking for training tips)?
Having played in the semi-final and final of the last Bingham cup for the Steelers I have to say that Gotham were strong but not brilliant (although I don’t think they scored against us – I cant remember). Sydney only thrashed us because we were destroyed from the Fog game (although my opinion is that Sydney would have beaten us anyway). Anyhow I know several players from both teams and find it highly unlikely that any of them were ringers. We have played “friendly” games where half the team were ringers because they hate losing to the Steelers and the difference is so obvious that anyone could spot it. I don’t think that was the case here.
I cant wait for the next Bingham Cup. We couldn’t attend because it is too regular a competition for us in London. Its not that we didn’t want to be there but that life here is ridiculously busy and expensive and we work very long hours and have very tough leagues for both the first and second teams. The last Bingham took it out of us after a punishing season. We had loads of injuries (I broke bones in the following two seasons) and people leaving for various parts of the world.
I really missed all of the other teams and felt quite a few pangs of sadness that we were not involved in singing in the dinner hall, or chatting to people from new and excited teams or even meeting old adversaries on the pitch. I hope my batterd body can stand another Bingham. I wonder whether it will be Manchester or Sydney?
Oh and to Spence who wrote “…an openly tolerant, gay-friendly rugby side.” Can I just correct you on something; we are “openly tolerant, straight-friendly” rugby teams. Lets not lose sight of that fact as we do not want to end up as the sideshow in our own competition.
on Jun 23rd, 2010 at 8:43 AM
First off Congratulations Gothem.
I’m an outsider who only recently learned there were rugby teams for gay men. As I read these postings the complaints, rumors and innuendo are similar to what we experience in the gay softball leagues in South Florida.
1) Teams stacking more advanced players and competing in lower skilled divisions. For example A players playing in a C league. We have the same issue. I coached a C division team where i had A players wanting to play just to win a trophy. As much as i wanted the trophy too i turned them down in order to help less skilled players learn to play the game and not be intimidated.
2) Non-Gay players in a gay league. NAGAAA the governing body set up a rule that no more than two non gay players could be on a field of play at a given time. The purpose of the league was clear to promote the sport in the LGBT community. It really was enforce based on the honor system. However if there was a suspicion of teams “skirting” the rule there’s a test. Set up a table, put 2 scarfs and 3 broaches on it. Have the player demonstrate how many different outfits they can make with it. That separates the wheat from the chaff very quickly!
3) Bitchiness – lets face it you get 100 gay men in a room the bitchiness and bitterness grows exponentially. Its a natural occurance. Just expect there will be some, and my best advice; let them vent and get it off their chests. They do eventually go away.
I hope we can start a GLBT rugby team in south florida.
on Jun 23rd, 2010 at 12:50 PM
@ A Steeler
The METNYRFU Union season is not where NYC clubs play most of their Rugby. Besides the “official clubs” there are numerous “social” clubs (NY Japanese for example). In the Fall the Union season in NYC is maybe 3 months long with as little as 8 games plus playoffs.
Like many clubs here in NYC we play almost all year. There are local tournaments, friendlies with official teams and friendlies with social clubs and 7′s.
Bingham is in June — just in time for the end of the “Spring” season.
Our club faces a few road blocks when it comes to the Union season. One of which is we cannot always field a veteran team. Our members will come out of the woodwork in the Spring season (even in a nonBingham year) but the Fall grind does not appeal to many.
Union matrix play is a small minority of Gotham’s playing schedule.
on Jun 23rd, 2010 at 7:30 PM
With all do respect @NYC kid, the Fall season in the METNYRFU is the only season that matters. It is the only season that counts told the national standings. Bingham is once every 2 years. If a team only prepares for a “gay rugby tournament” they are not shooting for the stars. Like some one posted earlier, Gotham lost every game in the union and yet won bingham!
As a former Gotham Player i am very proud of the team, there are people that played in Minnesota that started on the team, when they not only did not win, they could not even score a try. A couple of years ago Gotham was one of the premier teams in the Union.
With that said my only hope is that Gotham can keep up their level of play (regardless of how many paid or straight players there are) For the 727 days between bingham cups.
on Jun 23rd, 2010 at 10:13 PM
Okay I just watched outtakes from the game at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkEj0H7GLqg. If Gotham had semi-pros on their team the play would have been a lot cleaner, tackles a lot less “higher,” and scrums not collapsing so easily. Are you fucking kidding me? This the work of semi-pros?
on Jun 24th, 2010 at 12:55 AM
Guys (I assume most people reading this are guys!)
What a lot of the whingers some of you really are! You simply don’t seem to get the point about Rugby!
Rugby is a team sport it is not like tennis, or baseball or even Soccer in some situations, it is not about individuals it is about playing as a team, functioning as a team, delivering as a team, believing you can win as a team. You have one star in Rugby – great but the 15 people opposite him will destroy him unless he is supported by a team, nobody however good goes 15 to one and comes out smiling on rugby pitch! If the Gotham team was populated by all these amazing players why didn’t they thrash everybody 100 – 0 why was the game against Seattle close, why was the game against Washington only won by 2 points, why did the final nearly go to overtime. I don’t really know what the term semi pro in a rugby context actually means but as I understand it there is a coaching rate laid down by the Union in NY and it is not a lot of money, the clubs that pay it pay the same as each other, those that cannot afford it don’t. I don’t get paid when I Coach but then nobody even told me it was on offer but I promise you $50 in NY does not go far (it wouldn’t cover a cab to and from Randels Island with tolls!).
What I can say is having played rugby for 30 years I do know that a third team from small town side in the UK would beat most 2nd division sides in the New York Union! The main reason would not be because they are better athletes (far from it) but it would be because they played as a team and know how to play as a team when the going gets tough. The reason all the three matches were so close in Gothams run up to the final victory at Bingham was because they were playing teams who wanted to win but not quite as much as Gotham did, winning by 7 points, 2 points and 3 points does not indicate to me Gotham had brought in an all-star team to beat all comers. It shows they had tough games but in the end Gotham showed enough spirit to carry them over the line. I am pretty sure if the result was the other way round in any of those matches the bitching that’s going on would be directed at a different winning team, instead you are having a pop at Gotham! Why can those of you out there who want to find fault simply not understand Rugby is a game that’s about being more than the sum of the parts, that’s why Rugby is such an amazing game and why despite being straight I assist in coaching a gay side, Rugby to me is about the fact it is always about being inclusive it doest matter if you are fat, thin, tall, short, fast, slow, gay or straight if you want to play there is a position and a team for you!
In this case Gotham came together and delivered a result. Next time it might be Washington, Manchester, Seattle or the Fog who cares it is about loving the game of rugby and enjoying the opportunity to play with people who love the sport. As one of the assitant coaches of Gotham I can assure you the guys who were there last weekend at Bingham were out there freezing their nuts off in January in the snow and rain on Randels island and there on a Monday or Wednesday nights when it was pissing down (Randels in the wet ins not much fun) and there last week sweating their tits off on a hot New York night working on one last “hold, touch, pause, engage” before getting on a plane to Bingham. That is why they picked up the cup, they have been training hard 3 times every week this year under a better coach than me and the hard work paid off!
I can say with confidence every Gotham A team player would walk into any other Div 3 NY Union side the results last year were not about lack of skills or athletic ability it was about lack of self belief. Something I am sure the other Gay sides face in their own unions every season!
Bingham brought out a hunger to win, that they want to win, they want to show their peers in the gay community they are a team and they play for pride of being part of Gotham, I am pretty sure the other sides feel the same. I hope that’s transferred to the NY Union season this year but the fact it came out just at the right time last week and they won tough close games proves they deserve the cup. They are better men than anybody who would find fault in a team that showed amazing commitment and determination to win three very tough matches to raise the cup on Sunday afternoon. The scores show it was fair and competitive, so those of you out there who cannot publicly acknowledge this at least show some good grace and keep your options to yourselves, you are not respecting the spirit of the team that left New York last week hoping to compete and came back walking on air on Monday!
Next time it probably won’t be Gotham (and I am sure there will be another round of accusations) – so what you sad sad little people get over yourselves and go back to your miserable little lives!
I hope the next team that picks up that cup gets a fraction of the understanding of what Rugby is actually about that the Gotham players have had in the last week. I hope the next winners also get the same great big slab of satisfaction for the reward of putting their bodies on the line for their team mates, and the understanding of what the rewards for the time, commitment and effort they put in getting ready for this tournament is all about. I have seen this so clearly on the faces of the two Gotham teams in the last 3 days since they got back! I salute the next Bingham champions in 2012 but for the next 2 years it is Gothams and putting it simply they went out and won it fair and square so they deserve it!
“With you Gotham!” its what’s its all about!
on Jun 24th, 2010 at 1:25 AM
Most of the haters I would assume are from Manchester, who showed a distinct lack of class as spectators during the final. Happy to ruin your day, boys. Let’s hope 2012 is far far away from your neck of the woods.
Oh, and my favorite book is Stephen King’s Eyaaah.
on Jun 24th, 2010 at 7:50 AM
@E And San Francisco but they seem to find something to complain about at every Bingham Cup just like in 2008 when they finished fourth and whined about the tie-breaker format that put Gotham into 3rd and the tie-breaker format that their IGRAB rep voted for when the rules were brought up for discussion….
on Jun 24th, 2010 at 12:26 PM
Gentlemen,
Demeaning a team, or a victory, diminishes the whole competition and every rugger whether or not they were able to travel to Minneapolis to give their all. Gotham worked hard for its victory and deserves the accolades. Those who don’t think so should prove it in 2012.
Every team evolves at a different pace and Bingham is great at letting them compete within developmental levels to foster the confidence to build them selves up. All the players worked hard to get on the pitch and all have different incentives…and all are valid. The sport is still growing in the US, especially in the gay community. Petty bitching and malicious rumors do nothing to help the growth.
on Jun 24th, 2010 at 2:14 PM
@Steeler
Gotham didn’t play in the spring 2010 season because in NY there is no spring season. If you meant the fall season, we did.
on Jun 24th, 2010 at 5:19 PM
Hiring a team to win a championship cheapens the event and does a disservice to those players it displaces.
Those of us that went to DC last year and lost 100-0 to the DC Renegades know that we tried our best only to be replaced by those that were hired.
I guess Gotham will want us back once these guys leave.
on Jun 24th, 2010 at 5:29 PM
@nycrugger Okay. SO if you were with Gotham during this time, please provide the names of the players that were paid. If you are a member of the club then you should have this information and should have mentioned it in your post.
on Jun 24th, 2010 at 6:02 PM
wow – wait, so you’re saying that Gotham lost to another gay team 100-0 just last year and now they have won the Bingham Cup?
that does seem…..odd, to have improved so much so quickly. I don’t know about the whole paid player thing, but it does seem odd. it seems to me that if you lose 100-0 that you would have a harder time recruiting, not an easier time getting good players to come play for you, especially with so many other teams to choose from in the NYC area.
that definitely seems weird.
on Jun 24th, 2010 at 6:10 PM
Archimedes – none of us were paid. It was last spring and I was new after I went to the gotham boot camp.
I guess this years boot camp must have been really different than mine last year as a really good team seems to have materialized out of thin air.
on Jun 24th, 2010 at 6:38 PM
The team that lost to DC last year was primarily a B side. A majority of our first-side Bingham players took one or two seasons off in 2009.
NYC rugger, I doubt you are an actual Gotham player, but if you were displaced by our new players I have to assume you are a back. Even if you were bumped from the starting lineup, if you weren’t good enough to make the 25-man roster for Bingham than I’d have to assume that you were never A-level in the first place, whether or not we hired Dan Carter and Brian O’Driscoll for the team.
In fact, I bet you couldn’t even tell us who those two people are without Googling.
on Jun 24th, 2010 at 7:03 PM
For those of you who would like to deal in facts, here’s a breakdown of the 25 men who went to Minneapolis and how long they’ve been with the club.
1 – 4 years
2 – 7 years
3 – 6 years
4 – new player, coworker of current player
5 – 5 years
6 – 1 year
7 – 2 years
8 – 6 years
9 – 6 years
10 – 4 years
11 – 1 year
12 – new player, friend of new 13
13 – new player, moved to NYC and joined club
14 – 2 years
15 – 3 years
16 – 4 years
17 – 1 year
18 – new player, friend of current player
19 – 3 years
20 – new player, coworker of current player
21 – new player, former coworker of 20
22 – 7 years
23 – 3 years
24 – 2 years
25 – new player, found club through website
Make of that what you will.
on Jun 24th, 2010 at 7:18 PM
I live with the truth of what Gotham is and with the vision that anyone can play great rugby, so I don’t have a lot to add to the current conversation based on speculation, bile and a defeatist attitude that is completely alien to me. I also don’t find it important to directly refute the opinions of those whispering in the dark. Yet, in this strangely macabre thread, I would like to address my mates.
Gotham Knights, I am indelibly proud of all you have achieved, the sportsmanship you embrace and the example of true community you create. The grace that you show your opponents in both defeat and victory reflect your character. That anyone willing to make the commitment can come to the club and play rugby without need for qualifying adjectives is the realization of Gotham’s bigger mission. You not only refute negative stereotypes, you obliterate them.
It weighs heavily on me that I was your coach through the team’s worst season on record last fall. I knew going in that my role was to preserve the club and bridge a period where many of you legitimately needed to step away and new folks needed time to mature. Frack it was hard, but you all understood that vision and stuck to it. I was proud for those who finally took time off to heal from the three grueling seasons following Dublin. I was proud of all the guys in their first year who never quit and stepped up to fill out an A side against the seasoned teams in our division. I was inspired by guys that took a hard hit from the economy, but were back rucking at the first opportunity. I was reinforce by faithful and dedicated friends. I’ve been renewed by the experienced coaches and players who have come to the team and openly shared their genuine passion for the sport and generosity of spirit.
Your knowledge of windy roof tops on the Hudson in December and your ability to catch an occasional pass with pop-sickled limbs after tackling in the icy mud illuminated only by the light reflected off a bridge support is your badge of honor, and now that badge has turned silver. No one standing outside the club would see any of this; it’s not their responsibility too. It is your responsibility to bear your well earned triumph with the same dignity I’ve come to admire you for. You don’t just carry that dignity for yourselves; you are the stewards of this symbol for all rugby players who have or will achieve excellence because they understand the true spirit of the game and this cup.
Well played. Now get off your asses. Summer camp is over. You’re back home, and we have a thing or two about rugby to show our fellows in the Met Union.
Always with you,
~Simmy
on Jun 24th, 2010 at 8:58 PM
Wow… this conversation is getting long and tired.
With all of the teams in the NYC area, i find it hard to believe that straight players from England and Australia would play for a gay team that happens to also be the worst team in the union with out any compensation. i can not imagine someone sitting across the pond googling NYC rugby teams and saying “i want to play for gotham”! I don’t think people were paid but what about housing, jobs, airfare?
on Jun 25th, 2010 at 9:23 AM
Left out of this conversation are two very important things: One, Gotham was the best coached team in a tournament that featured outstanding play and coaching. I saw guys I’ve watched play rugby for years play at a knowledge and skill level I would have never imagined them capable of.
Gotham had some phenomenal straight athletes? So did the SF Fog, Washington Renegades and Sydney Convicts to name but a few. Any of those teams could’ve easily won the Cup this year, and sadly they’d be subject to the hating that has become so prevalent in today’s world. But I submit the reason it was Gotham this time was that they had a coach who’d been involved with Heineken Cup level rugby and coached one of the top level clubs in New York. He was probably paid, just like coaches of most IGRAB clubs are paid, but even still it would’ve been barely enough to cover his expenses.
The best Gotham player was their captain, whom I’m pretty sure is straight. I don’t know him very well, but I can say this about him. He embodies the word “teammate”. He’s a very talented athlete who loves the game and loves the guys he plays alongside. He stood and accepted the trophy saying that this was the most amazing thing he’d ever been a part of.
Does that sound like a mercenary to anyone?
on Jun 25th, 2010 at 10:51 AM
Just look at spring bootcamp pics. Majority of guys were there from beginning of the season.
http://gothamrfc.smugmug.com/Portraits/teampictures/10829185_V98or#807699693_78xbM-A-LB
As far as “Captain Gay” is concerned, perhaps people would love to know that he has a gay sister, in cancer remission, who inspired and urged him to do something different. Please do not demean someone if you do not know him.
on Jun 26th, 2010 at 9:45 AM
I’m American, but in my mind, the Sydney team won the tournament. It’s an amateur tournament. New York hired and paid professional players who scored a majority their points.. Without these players, Gotham’s regular season roster would have been defeated soundly in hotly contested matches by at least three of the clubs, and likely defeated by two additional clubs. Sure, they won, but look at how they did it. It must feel like a mighty shallow victory for New York, especially for those devoted, longstanding players who lost a starting spots to some guy getting a check. They have the Cup, but where’s their pride?
on Jun 26th, 2010 at 10:04 AM
Before he died Mark Bingham wrote a letter about playing for a gay rugby team that said “… we have the chance to show the other teams in the league that we are as good as they are. Good rugby players. Good partiers. Good sports. Good men.” With the use of paid professional players who unarguably determined the outcome of this amateur tournament, New York has shown that gay teams can, of course, behave as badly as any other team too. There are people who don’t get the concept of good sportsmanship everywhere and clearly they are calling the shots on Gotham.
on Jun 26th, 2010 at 11:35 AM
We won the cup but we are not deluded. Internally, we agree that there is no question Sydney sent a very strong team and probably would have won over Gotham 8/10 times, they are the model club we would like to become (as said by the captain). Sometimes these things just happen, Gotham converted the opportunities more than Sydney that day, and the whistle blew. That was the game played that time and day. Not last year, not one month ago, not next month, it was that day.
What is wrong with you people debating straight or gay players? Gotham’s mission has always been one of inclusiveness. Other clubs have different policies, even one that requires sponsorship by a “gay guy” to join. That’s not us, and not our policy — whatever works for you, let it be, it’s not our place nor yours to dictate unless you are a member. We have our own member policies. We are not the softball league, nor other gay leagues with straight guys restrictions. If and when the rules are made by IGRAB, we’ll follow it.
What is wrong with recruiting guys who played a higher level and volitionally want to play down b/c of personal ideology? Believe me, we keep asking why they want to do this over and over again. The answer is usually not b/c of the Mercedes Benz Gotham offered each new recruit. I am sure Dan Carter would not even consider joining Gotham even with a Bently offer. It’s really insane for people to think these players are “paid.” Regardless, high level recruits have proven to be the inspirational athletes and social leaders of our club that have brought members closer together — this is something no one can take away from us. We invite doubters to join our club to see the magic.
How about former USA Eagle guys or Div 1 guys who played at the tournament? Why isn’t anyone picking on them? Emerald warriors had a Div 1 prop assigned to them. Phoenix Storm had a Div 1 scrummy assigned also. Gotham didn’t even bother looking at the roster of other clubs — we didn’t try to uncover who played what Div 1/Div 2 levels, who played what straight league…we were only interested in challenging the players on the field, play our game, nothing else.
A sportsman should know that your starting position is never guaranteed. Johnny Wilkinson will be benched if someone else can deliver. Work hard and earn your spot. It’s delusional to think your spot is god given right. We have had guys we left b/c of displacement. It’s probably better off for morale anyway. That diva behavior is cancer to a club. People play up or down based on the roster needs, step up or step down when called for, this is the nature of sports — don’t play sports if you think otherwise. And there is no dishonor in playing a B side. I have been up and down this ladder so many times, and I am still have a great time representing my club in any capacity.
on Jun 26th, 2010 at 1:05 PM
W: Gay/straight isn’t the issue. It’s an amateur tournament. Paid players are the issue. Take away New York’s pros and Gotham, as they have been previously, is in the middle tier of the top 8 teams. And stop lying about players being paid. Several of your own guys are telling people the truth. You won without honor and Sydney, and DC and SF would have beat you without them and you know it.
on Jun 26th, 2010 at 1:33 PM
Max, you sound like you know exactly who is paid what? Please enlighten us. I’d also love to hear from our own players what they know.
We keep financial matters a private matter between a person and the club officers, so no general member on the team knows and it’s easy for rumors or speculation to surface even within the club. Financial matters include many many many guys over the 9 years where the club has assisted to attend Bingham and play regular season, and specific fund raising to help achieve these goals. Our membership dues are over $400-$500 per year plus the many additional required spending. This is not a burden everyone can bear. Gotham has a policy that if you want to play rugby, no one should be left behind if funding is a problem — something as simple as waiving fees or payment plans — there is no criteria of level of play. Almost every club does that. So, these guys are paid players then? If so, yeah you caught us red handed, many of our guys are paid “pros.” I’d love to hear from the other top teams how many people they have assisted to go to Bingham. Don’t be naive to think everyone paid out of pocket.
I won’t be commenting anymore. It’s clear that minds are set and it’s getting vicious. Prob best to let people vent. Have a good rest of the summer.
on Jun 26th, 2010 at 1:45 PM
I’m just going to put my name out for everyone, because I don’t hide behind fake names.
Max that was a dope letter you posted from Mark and I couldnt agree more with it. I can’t wait to play with the Fog this upcoming season.
Congrats to Gotham on the win they deserve it! Hopefully they can now translate it to a more important union season in the fall and win the nationals, which would mean more to gay athletes around the US.
on Jun 26th, 2010 at 5:42 PM
“devoted, longstanding players who lost a starting spots”
This comment shows how little people from the outside understand the team.
Which players exactly were bumped from their positions this season? You’re talking about a devoted, longstanding lock, inside center, or outside center. Gotham hasn’t had those positions stabilized since the last Bingham.
The haters are just sore losers.
on Jun 27th, 2010 at 1:23 AM
My son has played for Gotham for 4 years, this was his 3rd Bingham Cup, he is straight and he is from Australia, he is not paid. We used to live in New York and he loves NYC and decided he wanted to come back in 2006. He was playing first grade in Sydney with and against Super 14 players and Wallabies. He was a totally amateur player and was balancing a fulltime job with his rugby. He wanted to come back to NY and contacted a number of rugby clubs and the Knights gave him the most encouraging response, he had no idea they were a gay club till he checked out their website. It didn’t worry him, the only help they gave him was to help him find a job in New York and he slept on the president’s couch for about a year till we moved back to NYC and then he moved in with us.
He loves this club and so do we, they are a great group of guys and they love and respect each other. Nearly all of the players who played last week have been with the club for at least 4 years.
My son didn’t play in the normal season last year because he had to have a break to heal some injuries (he has been playing since he was 5 and is now 28) and during that time he returned to Australia 4 times, twice because his eldest brother passed away and we, as a family needed him and he needed us, and one of his best friends was killed in South Africa while playing Super 14s, a total tragedy.
A lot of the other players had injuries and job committments, New York is a very high pressure city. I have lived in a lot of cities of the world and I don’t know anywhere that is more high pressure than NY.
There were 3 Australians on the NYC team one of them used to play for the Convicts and I must say that the speech by the captain of the Convicts was one the best and most gracious that I have heard. It seems that every team, except the Convicts, has had a ‘bitch’ about this.
My husband and I travelled from Taipei to Minneapolis to watch the Bingham Cup, one of the other player’s parents came from England and another’s parents drove 7 hours from Kansas. That is how important it is to the players’ families.
These guys have a special place in our hearts and we have seen how hard they have worked over the last 4 years and it upsets us to see all the bitching from idiots who listen to and spread stupid rumours.
My son has had some great grand final wins through his life, he was in a team from 5 years to 12 years that produced 3 Australian reps and was undefeated for 4 years, he went to school with 4 Wallabies and his Under 20s team won a comp for their club which they hadn’t won in 35 years, but I have never seen him so excited by a win as this one, he says he is still walking on ‘cloud nine’.
We have got to know these guys over the last 4 years and love them all and are so proud of them. We know the committment they have put in and are so impressed with what they have achieved. We will be there tomorrow to watch them march down 5th Ave carrying the Bingham Cup before we fly back to Taiwan.
To all you bad sports out there, I wonder how you would feel if people were saying these things about your club. I know the Knights have won the Cup fair and square and totally deserve it.
on Jun 27th, 2010 at 5:14 AM
As a Minneapolitan with zero connection of any kind to rugby politics, I feel compelled to offer up this shameless paraphrase of Mr. Prince Rogers Nelson, directed particularly at the solo photo:
Every time I load this site
Woofy things assault my eyes
If you’re a ringer, I don’t care
I just want your giant bi’s.
on Jun 28th, 2010 at 11:35 AM
Fuck guys, the tournament’s over. And I’m over this thread.
on Jun 28th, 2010 at 8:59 PM
Hey Gotham Knights, if you’re stiil reading this drivel, congrats on your win. I played my ass off against you guys for the Seattle Quake A side in this Bingham Cup, and while there’s lots to read all I know is what I saw on the pitch and you guys earned it all. I have shared the past three Bingham tourneys with your team and look forward to my chance to take the Cup from you in two years.
If you’ll allow a bit of narcissism here, let comment #76 be the end of it all! Those of us actually trying to decide things on the pitch have the next two years to get our arguments in order.
Smooches, the Seattle Quake inside center.
on Jun 28th, 2010 at 10:17 PM
Let me give y’all a little history lesson. As a founder of an IGRAB team (Boston Ironsides), board member and player for two IGRAB teams (Boston and Gotham), an assistant coach (Gotham) and a participant at two Bingham Cups (London and NYC)… I have heard this all before. There are at least three IGRAB clubs that either officially or off the record were absorbed or were absorbed by non-IGRAB clubs and we all know who they are. I know of one IGRAB club that showed up to Bingham Cup in NYC with an A-side that had virtually nobody on it that we knew (everyone that we had known for years from that club suddenly ended up on their B-side). And the most ironic part about all of this is that it is the same bitter and jaded queens from these very teams that are whining and bitching now because Gotham won.
The most honest comment I have seen on here was by Lou when he said “everybody hates Gotham, and have for years.” Ain’t that the truth!!! I remember coaching Gotham’s B-side during the first Plate final in Esher against King’s Cross and in the stands, the only team routing en masse for Gotham was Manchester and that was mostly for two reasons… their rivalry with King’s Cross and the fact that all those chicken hawks had a hankering for a certain chicken on our team… LOL. But none of the American teams were supporting us, including clubs that helped to start Gotham nor clubs that Gotham helped to start. Trust me, this is something that is not lost on Gotham veteran players.
Now I will be the first to admit that Gotham is loud and crazy. We may even be vulgar and promiscuous. And yes, we have probably gotten more than our share of attention from the media. But you know what? We are a product of our environment. We represent NYC and NYC is loud, crazy, vulgar and promiscuous. And yes, we do think because we are from NYC we are automatically cooler than you. That is how New Yorkers in general think and act. We are not from a city that is conservative, puritanical or modest. Why would you think that a rugby club from NYC would be any different.
As for recruiting, I was Director of Rugby for Gotham when we began recruiting players internationally for Gotham. We added the link to our back then, which was years ago. Our thinking was that a rising tide lifts all boats and that if we could recruit players who played at a level that current players could only dream of, then we would all be better for it. We fielded a number of resumes, reviewed credentials and had conversations with a number of different potential recruits. We never offered a single penny to any of them. What we did offer was to use the connections of our club to help them find possible employment and housing. The main benefit to them in considering playing for us was to experience life in the greatest city on earth (see, I told you we think that way). And it worked. In fact, for one of these players we even beat out a Division 1 team from our own Union. It would seem the the Velvet Mafia is better connected than most would think. Plus, it helped that by joining Gotham they knew they would have a bigger impact by being a big fish in a small pond rather than just a regular fish in a big pond.
But these recruits were full-time members of Gotham. Played for Gotham regularly. They even filled in as interim coaches when needed. They absolutely were not ringers. The biggest change to Gotham since its last Union season was they hired a new coach with a great deal of experience. He was recruited I am sure in a similar fashion to how experienced players were recruited. Yes Gotham suffered a set back in its last Union season, as many veteran IGRAB clubs have done at various points in their existence. But the Union season before that saw Gotham play for its division championship and finish in 2nd place in possibly one of if not the most challenging Union in the US. They also became the first IGRAB team to advance to the National playoffs before being eliminated in regional competition. So rest assured, the set back was an anomaly brought about by the fact that a number of Gotham veterans who had been with the club since or near its inception finally hung up their cleats and called it a career. Several players also decided to take this season to heal long standing injuries that they had been playing with. It was during this season that many of the faces you saw at this Bingham Cup gained their initial rugby experience (cut their rugby teeth as it were).
I knew, the moment that I heard that Gotham had won, that this sort of nonsense was going to ensue. Why? Because I have seen it and heard it all before and as Lou points out “everybody hates Gotham, and have for years.” Unfortunately this sort of sophomoric behavior doesn’t hurt Gotham, because if you haven’t noticed we don’t care if you hate us. Whether you love us or hate us makes no difference to us. Because first and foremost our club views itself not as a gay rugby club but as a rugby club that happens to be predominantly gay. We play rugby not gay rugby. We are principally a member of METNYRFU. Our membership in IGRAB is secondary to that. Who this does hurt however, is IGRAB. Because it sends a very bad message to those people who otherwise might give coming out of the closet and moving from established non-IGRAB clubs to playing for an IGRAB club. Because who in their right mind would want to have to put up with this sort of drama.
Let me close by saying that I have never been more proud of Gotham. Your time had come. You have worked hard for nearly a decade for this achievement. And you all know, like I do, that the bitching, pissing and moaning makes it even more enjoyable.
on Jul 13th, 2010 at 8:54 AM
Hi All,
Wow – I only just heard anout this and have just read through (most of) the comments. I’m the Captain of the Manchester Village Spartans and would likem to add my utmost and sincere congratulations to the Gotham Knights – bloody well done boys. And commiserations to the Sydney boys too – you we’re great too. I think the Knights were (only just) the best team in the tournament and deserved winners.
I noticed a couple of comments saying we were ungratious for our chanting during the final. I’m gutted if that’s how it came accross. We have sung and chanted our way through every Bingham Cup Final since SF in 2002 (except the one we played in) and each time, we’ve sought to bring some humour to the occasion with some gentle ribbing of the side we’re not favouring as well of encouragement to the one we are. That’s all we did this time around, and if we offended anyone of NYC, please accept my apologies on behalf of the club – it certainly wasn’t our intention. It’s no secret that we wanted Sydney to win. This is because of long-standing personal friendships between our two teams. Nothing more.
On the issue of paying players/drafting in guys from abroad (if it happened), my view is that each club is within its right to manage thier own club however they see fit. For sure, there were only a handful on the Gotham team that were at the last Bingham but you’d expect some turnover in a major world city like NYC. I hope to see these same guys at the next tourney, the one after and so on.
I can say that if we imported a whole load of guys into our club with inducements of any kind and pushed longer-standing gay players down to a 2nd team (again, I have no way of knowing if this did or did not happen, other than what is said here and to me by former members) then I think we would have utter mutiny!
The Manchester Spartans is a community rugby club, with the avowed aim of giving access to the sport to gay men who otherwise might not play. We will continue to be proactive in recruiting from the gay community and try to develop the best team we can from what we have. We do not and have not ever sought to recruit from beyond the gay community. Our straight players (we have 3 throughout the club) are friends or family of gay players.
I’m pretty sure that our club will always keep this ethos, and if that means we compete in a lower tier from the likes of Gotham, then so be it.
Here’s to Bingham Cup Manchester 2012 (hopefully)!
Cheers
Matt
P.S. none of the previous comments on this are from any Spartans – no-one had heard of the site before today, most of them aren’t literate enough to type, and none of them were that bothered about the player payment/import issue anyway!
on Sep 22nd, 2010 at 2:27 PM
Hmm…how interesting. Three months later and much of the vaunted Gotham back line are no longer playing with them. Perhaps their contracts ran only through Bingham? Look on USA Rugby for some of the names that were their stars and none of them are registered for the fall. I’m sure Gotham will claim injuries, but yeah, the entire imported lineup are all injured at the same time?
Gotham is back to their losing ways. According to local match reports, their forwards are doing fine, but their back line is horrible. Coincidence?
on Sep 26th, 2010 at 8:02 AM
The SF Fog registered a dozen new players with USA Rugby the week before the Bingham Cup, some as soon as 48 hours before kickoff.
on Oct 15th, 2010 at 5:57 PM
@carl
Little or nothing of what you write is true.
on Nov 22nd, 2010 at 2:04 PM
I played against Gotham for several years and never saw their Bingham players at other matches. Maybe a few at the Invitational they host but not when they came down to play us. The allegations have been there for years and for those of us who have played them outside the MBC the roster difference is obvious. I’ll note that I recognized almost everyone on their “B-Side” from many years of previous meetings.
I also agree that a team that didn’t win a matrix game in the two years between MBCs but suddenly became a power in June is highly suspicious. Sorry Gotham, it’s an open secret and it’s a shame.
on May 3rd, 2011 at 12:14 PM
Gotham lost last week 84-10 to a middling opponent in their own Union. A team they used to regularly beat. Are you still standing by your claims that Gotham doesn’t pad their roster for the Bingham Cup?
on May 15th, 2011 at 11:26 AM
And now they just lost their latest match 87-0? This is the Bingham Cup champion? Disgusting.
on Sep 25th, 2011 at 8:52 PM
I see they are 0-3 so far this year. Only 9 months till bingham, time to start rounding up the troops.