37 responses so far ↓

• 1 Sean Smith // Aug 17, 2008 at 10:54 am

  steeplechase, hurdles, tons of variety of distances and Carl Lewis won medals in long jump too.  It’s just as easy to say jumping really far is just as trivial as doing different strokes better than anyone ever, but to trivialize a sport by saying it’s like running backwards, hopping and skipping is pretty ignorant.

• 2 RBearSAT // Aug 17, 2008 at 11:28 am

  This is the most uneducated comment on Olympic sports I’ve heard. What about Shooting? What about the various events of T&F? How about Gymnastics?There are 4 strokes in Swimming and 3 major distances. The good thing about swimmers is the versatility of them to be able to compete in the different strokes.So maybe the claim that Phelps is the greatest Olympian all around is true. His versatility in the pool is validated by 8 gold (yea, the top honor) medals.I hope you were just making this comment to stir us up because it’s pretty lame.

• 3 RC // Aug 17, 2008 at 2:39 pm

  Phelps has proven that he can be the best regardless of the stroke, and to some extent the distance.  It is not his fault that there are “too many” swimming events, but the fact he excelled in all of those that he entered should not be diminished, especially when he had opponents who were event specialists.  If you sincerely equate the different swimming strokes to running backwards, hopping, and skipping, then maybe T&F should have those events, and let’s see if Usain Bolt dominate those events.  Phelps did in swimming, full stop.

• 4 Jim Buzinski // Aug 17, 2008 at 3:02 pm

  The strokes the swimmers must master are different, as are the distances.

  In track and field they give out medals for walking and running, which is as segmented as swimming. Let’s see Usain Bolt win the 20K race walk. In running they have sprinters, middle distance and long distance. In field they throw the shot, javelin and hammer. I see no difference in swimming.

  Using this argument, Carl Lewis’ medals weren’t worth as much since he was “only” a sprinter in his running events. Let’s see him win the marathon or shot put!

   

• 5 Marc in Chicago // Aug 17, 2008 at 3:34 pm

  This article exhibits a lot of ignorance about swimming — not to mention some bad writing — and you fail to make a case for fewer swimming medals.You start off saying that there are too many swimming medals, but you go off on the completely irrelevant tangent that Michael Phelps couldn’t be the greatest olympian ever. This article doesn’t have one coherent focus; it has two — both poorly argued. Each confusing the other’s point.Here’s what Cyd’s really saying: “I don’t know much about swimming so I get this funny feeling in my stomach that there should be fewer swimming medals. Oh and Michael Phelps isn’t the best ever because I said so.” Unbelievable.

• 6 Steve in Stockport // Aug 17, 2008 at 3:58 pm

  The thing nobody’s mentioning now is that they were talking at the start of the games about the new swimsuits.  Someone commented that when they wore one of those and got in the pool they went like a rocket!I get the feeling that whilst some of the medal winners would have got them anyway, there must be an equal number who only get them because their equipment helps them be better than anyone else.How many world records would have been beaten in Beijing if the male swimmers were all wearing jammers or speedos/budgy smugglers? 

• 7 Andrew // Aug 17, 2008 at 5:10 pm

  Do you honestly believe this Cyd, or did you just type this up to provoke comments?  Have you ever been in a pool?  Have you ever swam butterfly or breastroke?  The IOC and FINA (the International Swimming Federation)  are not silly enough to just approve “watered-down” events to make a swim meet longer, believe me, if you’ve ever been to one, you would realize how long they truly can be!  Each event is uniquely different than the next and requires a different style of training.  The IOC recognizes that, as well as the rest of the world.  Phelps ability to swim the 100 freestyle (relays), 200 freestyle, 400 freestyle, 200 and 400 IM, 100 fly and 200fly is incredible.  Out of the 17 events he won 8!  And the way he swam 17 events over 8 days! Amazing!

• 8 Cyd Zeigler jr. // Aug 17, 2008 at 6:44 pm

  I love it when people see a divergent opinion and automatically jump to the “ignorant” accusation.

  I’ve been in a pool many times. I can swim (though not well) all of the strokes. I have for years.

  Yes, I really believe this. They should not have five 100m medals. Sorry the swimmers are so offended that I might think there are too many swimming medals. But ignorant I am not.

  Incidentally, there are other events that I think are bullshit, too. The triple jump - which was one of my specialties in high school - is one. I guess that makes me ignorant about an event I competited in an won for six years, huh?

• 9 Cyd Zeigler jr. // Aug 17, 2008 at 6:48 pm

  BTW, I do think what Phelps did is AMAZING! 17 races in 8 days? That’s just crazy. I just don’t think he should have 8 medals for it.

• 10 TOS // Aug 17, 2008 at 6:54 pm

  There is some incorrect math in the post. There are 302 EVENTS in the Olympics, of which 34 are in swimming (the 32 in the pool and 2 in open water). You compared the 96 MEDALS (32×3) to the 302 EVENTS.

• 11 Drew // Aug 17, 2008 at 11:13 pm

  I too disagree with Phelps winning SO MANY medals for essentially the same thing (let’s be honest).There should be a cap for how many events one can enter, as Phelps took 8 medals when in-fact, a few other ‘greats’ could have shared in the joy.Oh well, he’ll be dethroned soon enough.

• 12 chad // Aug 17, 2008 at 11:25 pm

  I agree whole-heartedly with every point. This same issue has been troubling me as well. “Watered-down” is an understatement. It’s just not fair to all the other great athletes.

• 13 Dave // Aug 17, 2008 at 11:49 pm

  So let me understand this Cyd. Are you are saying that there is no difference between freestyle, backstroke, butterfly, and breaststroke? Those are 4 distinct strokes, so why would they not award medals for those different strokes at different distances? By your argument, why have weight classes for events like boxing, weightlifting, or wrestling? Just put everyone together regardless of weight and let the chips fall where they may. Why have the hurdles in track and field? Why have the high jump and the long jump? Just jump.  What makes what Michael Phelps did so impressive is that swimming is such a specialized sport. He showed that at various distances, with various strokes, and in the IM races having to use all 4 strokes in 1 race, he not only could qualify for those events but he is the best in the world. He never said he was the greatest Olympian, the media did. If his accomplishments were as easy as you said, why did it take someone more than 30 years to break the record of Mark Spitz? By the way, there are 302 events, 957 total medals (302 gold, 302 silver, 353 bronze). Swimming doesn’t account for a third of all medals, but about 10%.

• 14 troy // Aug 17, 2008 at 11:49 pm

  someone seems bitter & uneducated.

• 15 Willie in DC // Aug 18, 2008 at 12:00 am

  You said that so many strokes waters down the talent pool with different athletes gravitating to different strokes. Isn’t that what happens in track and field? Some gravitate to the sprints, some to the hurdles, some to the middle distances, some to the long distances. Should every event other than the 100m be eliminated in track? Also, I don’t believe Michael Phelps or anyone ever said he was the fastest swimmer alive so I’m not sure I get the Jesse Owens and Carl Lewis comparison. Owens and Lewis couldn’t say they were the best marathoners alive, or the best hurdlers alive. So what? They were the best in their events, like Phelps is in his. You seem to be fixated on “the fastest…”

• 16 Kris // Aug 18, 2008 at 12:09 am

  While I disagree with much of what you said, I have to say this obsession with wanting to name someone the best ever is something we face in every aspect of life. Is Michael Phelps the best Olympian ever? I don’t know. Is he the best swimmer ever? Probably. But to try to compare swimming to track and field or basketball or any other sport is just silly. Too many variables, too many differences. Bottom line, Michael Phelps did something that has never been done before. He went up against the worlds best in 8 different events and with the help of some teammates came out on top. Why don’t we just leave it at that?

• 17 Sean Smith // Aug 18, 2008 at 12:25 am

  Maybe ignorant isn’t the best word to use, but I was only basing my comments off what was written.  When comparisons are made between running backward, skipping and hopping with legitimate sporting events, maybe the best word is offensive.  Seems harsh to call the sport bullshit for having several different events regardless of how you feel about them.  And all of this is simply because people are trying to say that medals are the definitive comparison for athletes across sport and time.  The comparison can’t always be made.

• 18 David // Aug 18, 2008 at 2:56 am

  Remarkable. The indepth review this writer has failed to reach. I’m surprised he didn’t get on the water polo issue; basketball in a pool?! Step up Cyd and have fun with that one. Actually, Phelps’ accomplishments are exactly that; accomplishments. I suppose I’m asking myself at this point, would your personal review of Mr. Phelps be slightly different if he stated he was “gay”?? Would that make his accomplishments more suitable and frameable in your terms of literary dribble?? Published rumor has it he pulled a cool mil from one of his sponsors for that accomplishment (8 gold). So let’s just call him a “great capitalist” shall we and clap when he wins events that can’t be overly influenced by biased referees….nough said.

• 19 deborah s // Aug 18, 2008 at 6:24 am

  One gymnast on a beam has to turn, jump, twist, spin, balance, split, flip, etc on a super thin, significantly raised platform - displaying truly amazing skill.  And basketball players (for example) have to win during the Olympics over and over before they can metal once.  One super swimmer can win all the swim medals because he/she does that same one thing (plus backwards and butterfly) fastest.  I think they should also be separately judged on spinning and twisting and jumping and flipping and balancing to win a few of all those awards offered, instead of the lions share of total gold available for speed alone.  I watch single athletes doing so may different skills perfectly to win one medal, and a swimmer can do just one thing perfectly and win a bunch.  After seeing the other Olympians’ performances with their limited medal opportunities for their field, should a swimmer be accredited the best athlete ever recorded for winning swim medals - best swimmer, heck YES.  I hope the future Olympics will reflect better who the world gets told is the world’s best of the best.

• 20 Charlie // Aug 18, 2008 at 1:52 pm

  That was one of the lamest commentaries I have ever read. And I don’t even feel the need to qualify why! ha ha

• 21 Dan // Aug 18, 2008 at 4:20 pm

  I am shocked to see such an uninformed commentary on Outsports. At least, you should consult someone who can explain the differentrace strategy on different distances and the skills needed for different strokes.I’m not saying swimming is the most exciting to watch because the athletes are in water, but atleast do your research to see that few athletescan achieve what Phelps has done.

• 22 deborah s // Aug 18, 2008 at 5:07 pm

  the lameness of my comment was a joke merely to prove a point. because so many gold medals are awarded for fastest swimmer, allowing one quick swimmer to be WORLD’S BEST ATHLETE over all other athletes who aren’t offered as many medal chances.  obviously a swimmer is not judged on his dive or turns or stroke technique individually during his performance, just speed, or speed, or speed, wait, then there’s, oh yeah speed again for more metals.  so here’s another lame comment - to even up the gold handouts, lets give balance beam athletes 5 additional gold metals for speediest time on the beam doing EACH of their requirements. 

• 23 Cyd Zeigler jr. // Aug 18, 2008 at 5:31 pm

  I understand what Phelps has done. I understand the different skills doing each stroke. I totally get it. And I don’t think there should be a gold medal for each one. While hopping and skipping aren’t revered as much as the breats stroke and butterfly, I think the analogy IS right on: They’re different ways of getting from point A to point B and take different strengths and skills. Comparing the javelin to the backstroke? Hah - that’s funny.

• 24 dat man // Aug 18, 2008 at 7:23 pm

  this article make sense. think abou it people, there are too many similar events in swimming with way too many medals. for example, a tennis player like nadal has to play for days, round after round, then quarter then semi and then finals and all to win what? one medal. how many rounds does someone like phelps spend to get his eight medals? if nadal were to get 8 medals in tennis hed have to play for about 2 months of tennis and would most likely die from exhaustion on his 3rd medal. does that seem fair? does the number of medals in similar events equal that of a medal from playing all those grueling games in basketball for one medal? dont think so. For those who disagree, well.. imagine if they were to also include a 90 meter sprint, a 80, a 70 a 60 an a 50m sprint.what would you say if one like person should win all those medals? phelps deseves a gold and perhaps 2 in swimming, he is great at what he does, but certanly not 8 medals. id like phelps to swim round after pre lim round, best 3 out of five sets each round, then go to quarters, do the same thing, then semis and then finals for one medal and then let me see him do that 8 times in a row to win his 8 medals. do you people have months to watch this? why dont you people use a little common sense and realize that maybe there are too many medals given for some events. 8 gold medals for swimming or one medal for basketball, which is greater? phelps is a great swimmer, but greatist olympian based on medal count?..not even close.

• 25 scott // Aug 18, 2008 at 11:28 pm

  While some of the author’s analogies aren’t perfect, he’s exactly right. Swimming gives out too many medals.
   
   
  It has always bugged me at the Olympics that athletes in team sports like volleyball and hockey have to work their asses off and battle as a team for two full weeks just to earn one stinking medal, while swimmers & runners can earn medals in mere seconds. Any impartial observer would admit that something about that just isn’t fair.

• 26 Andrew // Aug 19, 2008 at 1:27 am

  I guess I’m just so suprised how so many people think that each stroke and each race are so similar.  Did anyone see the same names in the 100 fly and 200 fly?  Did anyone see the same names in the 400 freestyle and in the 100 freestyle (Phelps did the relay).  Perhaps for people who are not swimmers and who have never attempted competitive swimming will never truly understand why swimming has 17 different olympic events and 17 medals, BUT, curiously enough the entire sports world has stood up and supported Phelps and swimming—and not that I’m a journalist or a member of the media, however I don’t think that sports experts would just spot off random comments about Phelps being quite possibly one of the greatest athletes this planet has ever seen unless there was a great amount of truth to it.  But, to each his own.  I still believe that the different distances of track and hurdles and steeple chase are still worthy events of medals and aren’t watered-down “filler” races just because they don’t conform to the strict “there only should be one way to execute any sport” philosophy.

• 27 David // Aug 19, 2008 at 1:42 am

  Deborah……I completely see your position on the issue and perhaps you’re overlooking the syncronized swimming competition aren’t you?? Their focus is on fluid grace and timing and has NOTHING TO DO WITH eh…what’s that word you’ve become so fond of? SPEED

• 28 dat man // Aug 19, 2008 at 5:57 pm

  the fact is that olympic events are diversed. a swimmer competes with himself really for the best time.others compete against an opponent like in boxing.others like trampoline compete for judged marks.then there are team sports. not all events are the same.im not saying one is better or easier but its just facts. so how many medals should an event give? why 17 for swimming and not 17 for volleyball? why not 17 for trampoiline? iam sure there are some trampoline fans out there who would say that their “sport” is just as varied and deserve for medals for more variations. if one knows that some events have more medals to be possibly won one must look at the medal count with impartiality. Not all events are the same, not all medal counts are the same and yes, not all medals won by olympians are the same. medal count is no indication of olympian greatness, especially in similar events.No one is saying that swimming in the olympics is easy and no one can say that getting 8 golds like Phelps is easy but what about that one gold for a boxer or a vollyballer? Are Phelp’s 8 gold a greater achievement? If one were to say yes, based on medal count then that very same person must deduct that if a basketball team can possibly only win ONE gold..then how many of Phelp’s golds is that One gold equal to?

• 29 RBearSAT // Aug 19, 2008 at 6:42 pm

  I figured I’d let this ride through the weekend and see how it would come out. As usual, Cyd doesn’t back off his comment.  Gotta hand it to ya, you stick to your guns to the end. That being said, I haven’t heard your alternative for the situation in swimming. Which one SHOULD we award the gold medals for? If it means cutting the distances out which should get cut and which should stay?  If it means killing a stroke which is the better “Olympic” stroke to keep? While we’re at it should we just cut the medley to two strokes and speed up the coverage? I’m still trying to understand your premise in the argument. All you claim is “too many medals” but dont’ provide any options or alternatives. It’s kind of like the person that says “I don’t like it but I can’t tell you what would be better.” Sorry Cyd, but this didn’t do much for my stock in your analysis of sports.

• 30 Dave // Aug 19, 2008 at 8:21 pm

  Easy solution, just swim freestyle for the 100m and do a medley and freestyle for 200 and 400, or just give all ’single event’ sports a medal for each game they win, and give biking and long distance running a medal for each 1/10 of the race.

• 31 Lily42 // Aug 20, 2008 at 2:26 pm

  http://results.beijing2008.cn/WRM/ENG/INF/GL/99/GL0000000.shtml
  Just have a look at the multiple medal winners from the link above. So far out of 28 people who won 3 medals or more, 21 did so swimming, 6 in gymnastics, 1 in cycling.
  Speaks for itself really.
  If swimming various distances in different styles individually or in a relay required distinct athletic qualities as some people seems to claim here, we wouldn’t be seeing the same names over and over in the finals.

• 32 Lily42 // Aug 20, 2008 at 4:14 pm

  And just for emphasis, the podium for the 200m medley was exactly the same as the podium for the 400m medley: Phelps, László Cseh, Ryan Lochte.

• 33 Jamie // Aug 21, 2008 at 12:29 pm

  Well running backwards/sidewards requires skill as well isn’t it? So why the difference?

• 34 watamooze // Aug 22, 2008 at 8:13 am

  If we consider the Olympix a 3-ring circus, it would fit having swimmers take 30% of all available medals - Have you seen these clowns dress up for a sport requiring hardly any clothes ? Swimming is without a doubt the sport requiring the least brains, which obviously qualifies it as the top act in the Olympic circus. This is further exemplified by the abject stupidity of swimming fans & sports commentators, neither of which can be credited with much more than minimal intelligence, in their accolades of Marc Phelps as the “greatest Olympian ever” - If Marc Phelps actually accepts the title, he can only serve as a prime example of the lack of brains exhibited by swimmers. If you want to become ”greatest Olympian ever” it is presumed, by the idiots in question, that you have to be a swimmer, & furthermore that you have to be American ( to have a strong enough relay team behind you ). Is this not typical of the All-American inadequacy syndrome, to declare their heroes to be the world’s greatest, by whatever convenient criterium possible ?Watamooze ( The greatest Non-Olympian ever ! )

• 35 Diego // Aug 22, 2008 at 8:25 am

  Way to go, Watamooze ! You may well be the ‘greatest Non-Olympian ever’ for your remarkable insight ! Come to think of it, however, you have only voiced what the normal section of humanity can figure out by simple logic. A weightlifter has to win 8 consecutive Olympics to win 8 gold medals - What makes a over-grown freak who can splash around better than anyone else so much more remarkable than Olympic winners of solitary medals in weightliting, wrestling judo, rhythmic gymnastics, volleyball, handball, etc. ? To be honest, this media hype about Phelps has only served to open the eyes of everyone ( except those with the swimming goggles ) to the reality of the unequal spread of medals on the Olympix - something which may eventually destroy whatever good is left in the event . . .       Diego

• 36 Jon // Aug 22, 2008 at 6:27 pm

  I think Lily42 nails it on the head. The swimming event lists is simply too watered down (pun intended). The number of people with multiple medals in the same Olympics is fairly small. Until Bolt 100m/200m was done as far back as 1984. And 200m/400m was done only once by one man in 1996!
  Now look at as recently as 2004 Olympics:
  200m/400m Freestyle Gold: Ian Thorpe100m/200m Backstroke: Aaron Peirsol100m/200m Breaststroke: Kitajima100m/200m Butteryfly: Phelps100m/200m Medley: Phelps
  You can look to pretty much any other Olympics but 2004 is the most glaring example.
  The distances are simply not different enough to warrant having all these races considering that the same set of people medal in the same events. It would be like if there was a 100m and 150m sprint.
   

• 37 Audrey // Sep 22, 2008 at 8:00 pm

  Swimming is about explosive energy in sprinting events you have to give all you have if you slow down for a second your commentator will beat you, but for  a mid-distance you have to know when to sprint and when to conserve. Say for instance  a 100 freestyle you sprint your first 50 then conserve on your the next 25 then explode on your last 25. Also for long-distance swimming you must have endurance and must be consistent with your speed. I believe swimming is a very tedious sport that if only you knew what long endurance practise and determination. I’m not say that only swimming is a difficult sport I envy any athlete dedicated to there sport its just so much sweat and tears are put in to any thing the atheliets at the olympics did that it is a shame to question there rights to winning any event. That would really damper any ones parade to dedicate years just so some one can rant about there sport being ” water down” on some blog site. I find just like any athlete that it is remarkable of what MP and any other athlete did thought the Olympics.

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